'This Week' Transcript 10-4-26: Former FTC Chair Lina Khan
This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, October 4.
A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, October 4, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
ANNOUNCER: "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS WEEK" ANCHOR: Midterm month. Thirty days out, President Trump rallying deep red states.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need the votes. And I'm here for that.
Pretend I'm running, please.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Diverting Homeland Security spending to pro-Trump TV ads.
SEN. THOM TILLIS, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: You know, that's not how we should be spending taxpayer dollars.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And as the Iran War drags on, Martha Raddatz tracks the impact on control of the House.
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: Tell me what else is important to you in an election, particularly as a veteran?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Plus.
MICHAEL KOTLIKOFF, PRESIDENT, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: This has been one of the most difficult weeks in our history.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Aaron Katersky and the roundtable examined the sexual assault controversy at Cornell.
And can A.I. be controlled?
REPORTER: Is this accord (ph) that everybody signed? Is it binding in any way?
TRUMP: I think it's morally binding, yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Facing dire warnings of existential risk. A.I. titans promise to police their own behavior. But is that enough? Former FTC Chair Lina Khan weighs in.
And as President Trump transforms the Oval Office, Jon Karl goes inside the people's house.
JONATHAN KARL, ABC "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: So, what are you going to do if the next president comes in and just takes down all the gold?
LUKE BOORADY, 'THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE' MUSEUM MANAGING DIRECTOR: We'll do that too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "THIS WEEK." Here now, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning and welcome to "THIS WEEK."
I have experienced political waves from the inside. Thirty-two years ago this week, I was working in the White House when a red wave was building. The economy was growing, but voters were not feeling it. After the collapse of his health care plan, President Clinton's approval ratings were stuck in the low 40s. So, he was advised to stay off the campaign trail, where he might hurt more than help.
That did not quite happen. And the red wave crested on Election Day in a big way. The GOP won 54 House seats, eight Senate seats, gaining control of Congress for the first time in 40 years.
Flash forward to today. With voters unhappy about the economy and his approval ratings stuck in the 30s, the president is also being warned against making the midterms a referendum on himself. And like Clinton, Trump is resisting that advice, barnstorming in deep red states and taking his campaigning to another level, personally commissioning ads, paid for by taxpayers, that put the president front and center. One even titled "God made Trump."
Four weeks from the final midterm votes, that's where we begin this week. Here's Jay O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAY O'BRIEN, ABC NEWS CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): You're watching an ad you paid for. Part of a series airing across the country praising President Trump that this week set off a political firestorm less than a month out from the midterms. One championing the war in Iran.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To the great, proud people of Iran.
O'BRIEN (voice over): Another decrying socialism and communism. And one featuring President Trump speaking at Mount Rushmore. At the bottom of each, this disclaimer, paid for by the U.S. government.
"The New York Times" reporting President Trump personally directed the Office of Management and Budget to find government funds for the ads. At least $3.5 million of taxpayer money spent so far according to one estimate.
The funds coming from the Department of Homeland Security, which last month awarded a $20 million contract to a Maryland ad agency days before the TV spots rolled out. Federal records show it came via a section of the Customs and Border Protection budget for commemorative events typically used to pay for things like memorials for officers killed in the line of duty, or commendation ceremonies, according to a congressional report. Democrats and even some Republicans charging the ads could violate federal law, which prohibits public funds from being used to campaign.
SEN. THOM TILLIS, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: That's not how we should be spending taxpayer dollars.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, (D) CONNECTICUT: They are absolutely illegal.
TRUMP: We are the freest people on earth.
O'BRIEN (voice over): The White House has repeatedly called these ads public service announcements to justify using taxpayer funds.
TRUMP: This is the final battle.
O'BRIEN (voice over): But decide for yourself. One of the ads, titled "the final battle," features a long, continuous shot of Trump. It was used in 2024 as a campaign ad. President Trump defending the spots, arguing he's not on the ballot.
TRUMP: I'm not promoting myself because I'm not running for office. I'm promoting the country.
O'BRIEN (voice over): The president had a different message, though, at the midterm convention.
TRUMP: To pretend that I'm on the ballot.
O'BRIEN (voice over): And again Friday night.
TRUMP: Close your eyes and pretend I'm on the ballot.
O'BRIEN (voice over): Some Republicans we pressed insisted they hadn't seen the ads.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT, (R) MISSOURI: I have not see it.
O'BRIEN: But they appear to be political ads using taxpayer money. Wouldn't that be illegal to do that?
SCHMITT: I don't know that they're taxpayer dollars. I don't know that.
O'BRIEN: They are.
SCHMITT: I don't know.
O'BRIEN: The White House has said that.
O'BRIEN (voice over): Several GOP lawmakers claiming both the Bush and Obama administrations took out similar ads, but those were for specific issues, like Medicare and the Affordable Care Act. And this week, Senate Majority Leader John Thune voicing their disapproval, too, saying of the president's ads, "I like the message, but it shouldn't be paid for with taxpayer dollars."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN (on camera): Democrats on Capitol Hill have sent a number of letters demanding answers from the administration, and they've also asked a government watchdog agency to investigate. But bottom line here, George, the White House shows no signs of backing down. So, unless something changes, these ads are likely to continue to run at least until Election Day.
George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure seems that way. Thanks, Jay.
Now let's bring in our Washington bureau chief, Rick Klein, with a look at the midterm map with one month to go.
Rick, thanks for joining us this morning.
One month away. Prediction markets, polls, most forecasters say the Democrats look like they're going to take control of the House.
RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, George, the House, as we know, is almost evenly split right now. That means Democrats need to just net three seats to take control of the House.
Now, presidents almost always lose ground in midterm elections, especially when their polling is subpar. That is certainly the case with Trump right now. "The New York Times" polling average now has his approval rating at just 37 percent. That's lower than his approval rating was eight years ago when Republicans lost 40 seats and control of the House. It's also lower than the approval ratings for presidents Bush, Obama, Biden. All of them saw their parties lose control in a midterm election.
This year, the playing field was literally redrawn with unprecedented mid-decade redistricting efforts. Some of that benefited Republicans, some Democrats. It's impossible to know the upshot. But our best estimate? Republicans can expect maybe two to as many as 11 or 12 seats moving into their column. Democrats will need to flip closer to six to 15 House seats. Doable, but by no means certain.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The Senate is a steeper climb for the Democrats, but their prospects seem to have improved since the summer.
KLEIN: Yes, George, Democrats need to net four seats to get control. That's because a tied Senate would be 50/50. So, they need 51. Republicans have that tie-breaking vote in the vice president.
These are our ABC News race ratings. First, they are playing defense in a couple of places. They need to hold on to seats in Georgia. Also in New Hampshire and Michigan. No sure thing. And as for offense, Democrats see their best chance in flipping North Carolina, where Trump won all three times he ran for president. They've also long been bullish on the bluer state of Maine, but Susan Collins has proved very resilient there.
And even if they win those, Democrats still need to take at least two Senate races in deep red territory. They need to break through in places like Alaska, Iowa, Ohio, Texas, maybe even Kansas. That's all -- all of those are states that Trump won by double digits in 2024. Again, a reach, but maybe not impossible.
"The New York Times"/Siena poll out just yesterday has Democrats either up or tied statistically. Very close races in all of those deep red states that I just mentioned.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And what else are you looking at?
KLEIN: Yes, there's always opportunities for big surprises to, George. There's a real wild card situation developing in Nebraska. Independent candidate Dan Osborne running for the second time for Senate there in a race that doesn't have a Democratic candidate at all. Even if he wins, if he doesn't caucus with the Democrats, the Democrats need to pick up as few as three seats to win control. Donald Trump will be campaigning in Nebraska tomorrow.
George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Rick, thanks very much.
Let's bring in our roundtable. We're joined by Chris Christie, Donna Brazile, Republican strategist Doug Heye, there he is right there, and Michelle Cottle from "The New York Times."
Donna, let me begin with you.
A lot of good news for Democrats out there right now. What keeps you up at night?
DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Turnout. Because as you well know, George, although the map is expanding, we know that Republicans had a voter registration advantage going into 2024. They had it going into 2026. Democrats have been able to improve in several states with voter registration. But it's all about turnout, especially turnout with low propensity voters, young voters, base voters. But Democrats have to expand to get -- reach independents. That's what keep me up at night.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you make of the fact that Democrats outvoted Republicans, at least in the primaries?
BRAZILE: The primary season was a very different, as you well know, animal, because there was a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of new candidates coming. The generational fight in the Democratic Party. We saw that kind of robust activity in 2006.
But you want to know what really keeps me up at night? The dark money that is flowing through American politics. I mean we've already seen over $11 billion in ad place -- $11 billion in ad placement. Compared to six, seven billion just a couple of years ago. What keeps me up at night is the money that we can't trace.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Chris, I talked about this at the top of the program. You'd advise the president, I think, not to go out there into every state when your approval ratings are in the low 30s. He's not going to listen.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No. And, in fact, I think the real battle inside the White House and on these campaigns is, where can they keep him out of and have him be willing to listen? You know, I think the idea of him being in Ohio yesterday was a horrific idea and --
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's talking about data centers.
CHRISTIE: Yeah, data centers.
And the whole speech was, you know, he was going back and forth between Jon Husted and Amy Acton, even though Amy Acton is running against Vivek Ramaswamy, and it's Sherrod Brown who's running against Jon Husted in the Senate race.
He was all over the place, was insulting at times to the audience about, why do I even really need to be here? Why do I care about this?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah.
CHRISTIE: Why should I be doing these things?
You know, he's not an asset right now in any states where the races are really close, except for the deepest red states.
But the thing that concerns me -- yes, what keeps Donna (ph) awake at night, is that Kansas and Nebraska --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah.
CHRISTIE: -- are contested races.
I mean, they haven't elected a Democratic senator in Kansas since the first decade of the 20th century. So that's what we're talking about in terms of what his bad poll numbers and the atmosphere in this country in terms of prices and the Iran war are doing to Republican candidates.
And, you know, finally, the Republicans made the smart move of pulling out of North Carolina.
We were on the show a little -- a little more than a year ago, George, and we were talking about Roy Cooper. And I said, Roy Cooper will never lose that race.
They've wasted north of $30 million on the race in North Carolina that they're now pulling out of and giving up on a year out. You can't afford to make those mistakes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Doug, that's your home state. How are Republican candidates protecting themselves right now?
DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR & REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Oh, look, they're trying to do everything they can to get in front of voters, whether that's in person, which we didn't see much of in the primaries, or online or -- and on television.
But the reality is, it's very difficult. I met with a member of Congress last week who won with about 60 percent of the vote last time, who told me they were nervous about their poll numbers, which set up an alarm, and then said, and I'm also worried about these two other members in my state, which no one's talking about. And that really becomes the map expanding.
And so, as Republicans and SLF, I think, make the right decision to pull out of North Carolina. And I can tell you, those races are almost always close. Everyone that I've worked on, we've won, but not by much.
I've never seen a state or a race in North Carolina be called this early. It's the right move to send that money now to Kansas. But we're talking about Kansas.
And so, our map is shrinking. The Dems map is expanding. That's never the conversation you want to have internally or externally when you're three or four weeks out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Michelle, with a month to go, you never know what's going to happen. But it doesn't appear that the fundamentals, inflation, the war in Iran, the big things, are going to change.
MICHELLE COTTLE, NEW YORK TIMES OPINION POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, and that's what the party -- that's what the Republican Party is very nervous about. And they're scrambling to figure out how to address that.
And then, of course, there's always the question of, I just got back from New Hampshire. I was following around John Sununu. He's one of the bright spots for the Republicans.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's been a tough race for the Democrats.
COTTLE: It's a tough race. But on the trail, he's facing all these questions about Trump, who he's trying to separate himself for and make this a local race.
But going through the kind of fairs and fall festivals and stuff, people want to talk to him about, do you back Trump on this? Do you back Trump on that? Are you going to cooperate?
It's an impossible position for these guys who are in these tough races to toe the proper line.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Even for someone like Sununu, whose name is so well known.
(CROSSTALK)
COTTLE: It's the dynasty in the state. But he's still having to address, you know, somebody lectured him, I need you to cooperate with the president. You know, 20 feet later, somebody's like, the president is a horrible man and you can't cooperate at all. You need to separate yourself. So it's tough.
(CROSSTALK)
HEYE: You know, what we call in politics, create separation. Donald Trump is a threat. So if you do that, you know that while you're in a debate or at a rally and you're trying to create separation on policy, Donald Trump can go on Truth Social and call you a disloyal loser.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Or even a senator who's not running --
DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: In Florida, Salazar.
CHRISTIE: You know, how about Tom Cotton --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah.
CHRISTIE: -- who he put his cell phone --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator from Arkansas.
CHRISTIE: Yeah, he put his cell phone number out there, because Cotton doesn't agree with him on Daylight Savings Time.
I mean, he's such a wild card on this stuff that they are concerned, Doug, you're right, about separating themselves too much. But they know that if they don't, that the numbers will just suffocate them.
So it's a very difficult position for Republicans. There's House races all around the country where folks really are trying to separate themselves. And the president's threatening to pull their money back from MAGA if they do.
BRAZILE: But, Chris, it's not just the money. It's -- Donald Trump brand is just down the toilet. And I don't see how he can bring it back up in less than 30 days.
I mean, that's why he's spending taxpayers' money to get his message out. I mean, I'm just appalled. I've never seen it in my entire adult life, and I've been involved in every campaign.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Go ahead.
BRAZILE: It's paid for by the United States government, which means my tax dollars is paying for ads that he ran when he was running for president.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Set aside that issue, which is a huge issue. What I don't understand is, again, maybe no one can tell him any differently, but when your approval ratings are in
the low 30s, do you really want commercials out there where you're starring?
COTTLE: He rejects the idea that this is a problem. Or he's actually tweaking them.
I went to the -- you know, the mid -- midterm convention in Dallas. And during his speech, he's like, you know, they tell me I shouldn't do this or that, but I'm going to go out there and I'm going to go to every single battleground tough race there is, Senate or House. I'm going to hit every one of them. And you could just hear from across the country, Republicans freaking out when they hear that. But he is determined to insert himself as much as possible and remind the party that it is still his.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk --
CHRISTIE: In the "Time" -- in the "Time Magazine" interview that he did this week, which I urge everyone to read if you -- if you can, he -- he did --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Why?
CHRISTIE: Why? Because I think it gives great insight into how upset and concerned the president is. You know, people think he lives in his own world. He does not. He is conscious of what's going on here. And the only answer he had on poll numbers in there was, well, they're fake. They just have to be fake because I can't be that unpopular. That's literally what he says in the -- in the interview.
So, he is trying to push up against the political tide, as he's always tried to do in his career, and he thinks it usually works. And he says to people, don't worry, it will work out. But if you're a senator or a member of the House on the Republican side, you're a lot less convinced that a lame duck Donald Trump is going to be able to push against that tide.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Doug, I want --
BRAZILE: He's gaslighting his own voters, George. That's the problem.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to ask you about Texas. "The New York Times" polls came out yesterday and today showing James Talarico up in the Senate race. The Democrat up as well in the governor's race. Is that the backlash from immigration, do you believe it, or is it fool's gold again for the Democrats?
HEYE: Well, it's a backlash on immigration, especially when it comes to those border races where we can have some congressional seats that are really at play. But also, everything still comes down to, what do things cost? And I think the challenge of Trump, whether he's in Texas, where he went and is going back to, or if he goes to Ohio, is, when Donald Trump or the ads that we're talking about, none of it is about, I'm Donald Trump and here's what I and a Republican Congress have done and are trying to do to reduce your costs. So, he's a bad messenger. It's also the wrong message.
COTTLE: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Democrats have been disappointed in Texas before.
BRAZILE: George, my heart is broken in Texas. I've been to Texas a few times. I wore my "Talarico for Texas" shirt the other day. I got more looks and stares than I've ever gotten before, but no discounts at the grocery store.
Look, Democrats are expanding the map in Texas. South Texas now is competitive for Democrats. Republicans began to make inroads with Hispanics. You see now two, three congressional districts. Also in East Texas, Tarrant County, again, Democrats are improving. I think this is going to be the year. We got a good candidate, a good ground game and the structural deficiencies are in place now.
COTTLE: And, George, it's important to remember that even if the Senate doesn't come into play and get -- finally, and Talarico does it, there are House races that are very close. And he's -- they're riding his coattails. It looks good.
I've been down in the Rio Grande Valley reporting, and I've talked to Latino voters who are -- they are so upset that they were sold a bill of goods on the economy. I talked to a woman who voted -- she and her husband voted for Trump, and this time she's like, never again.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Democrats might even win some of those seats that are needed to help Republicans.
COTTLE: Exactly. Bobby Pulido in 15. They're running a tough race. There's a lot of places where, not just the immigration message, but just what stuff costs. And they feel like they were burned by believing Trump last time.
BRAZILE: Mr. Abbott has spent 50 million.
CHRISTIE: You asked about fool's gold, George, in Texas, I think it's a split decision. I think there really is a very contested race for the United States Senate. And I think Democrats have a shot to win that. I don't believe that they're going to beat Greg Abbott in the governor's race. And I think --
BRAZILE: He's under 50 percent, Chris.
CHRISTIE: I -- Donna, I hear you, but -- but he -- but -- but --
BRAZILE: And he spent $50 million. Gina Hinajosa is rising.
CHRISTIE: But he is a -- he is a known quantity in the state. People know him. They don't associate him with President Trump. Paxton is very, very different. Remember to look at the quality of the candidates. That's why Susan Collins is doing well in Maine. That's the difference.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We've got to take a break and come back and talk about Cornell after the break.
And up next, the top leaders of the A.I. industry say they're going to police themselves. Former FTC Chair Lina Khan responds when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG BROCKMAN, OPENAI PRESIDENT: We build artificial intelligence to benefit everyone. We think it can lift everyone up. We see a whole renaissance of small businesses, scientific discoveries really starting to happen.
JENSEN HUANG, NVIDIA CEO: We're going to advance this technology that are so consequential to humanity and so consequential to the future prosperity of our nation, and we're going to do it responsibly and safely.
DARIO AMODEI, ANTHROPIC CEO AND CO-FOUNDER: We all need to work together to make sure that we can win and we can win safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: With concerns growing about A.I., top tech leaders met at the White House with President Trump and promised to police themselves, rejecting calls for more government regulation.
We're going to speak with former Federal Trade Commission Chair Lina Khan after this report from Elizabeth Schulze.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH SCHULZE, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After an extraordinary summit at the White House Tuesday, bringing together the leaders of the most powerful tech companies.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are the most brilliant people in the world.
SCHULZE (voice-over): President Trump made clear his administration will not impose federal guardrails to regulate A.I., insisting the companies will police themselves.
TRUMP: It's going to be very, very safe. There's a self-policing. And there's also a group policing, and it's going to be great.
SCHULZE (voice-over): Trump announcing a handful of A.I. companies signed a voluntary agreement to implement robust internal controls and external auditors to evaluate safety. The document heavily shaped by Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg.
MARK ZUCKERBERG, META CEO: The idea isn't that this is the only thing that we will ever do. It is that this is a start and an accord that the whole industry could come to.
SCHULZE (voice-over): The accord is not legally binding. The president was asked what will force the companies to follow through.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is it binding in any way?
TRUMP: I think it's morally binding.
SCHULZE (voice-over): As he stood side by side with other CEOs, Anthropic's Dario Amodei suggested the agreement does not go far enough.
AMODEI: I think the technology has very real risks. And, you know, the mechanism, how we address those risks is still under discussion.
SCHULZE (voice-over): Amodei warns the technology their own companies built is learning to outsmart humans. Just this week, OpenAI paused the release of its latest model, saying it didn't quite meet the bar in terms of staying within scope and authorization. And researchers say they uncovered new examples of OpenAI agents going rogue, attempting to hack government-run websites. The company's CEO acknowledging the technology's risks at a U.N. speech.
SAM ALTMAN, OPENAI CEO AND CO-FOUNDER: As the process of building A.I. becomes more automated, the pace of A.I. progress could accelerate rapidly. This moment calls for extreme care.
SCHULZE (voice-over): A new Quinnipiac poll finds 86 percent of Americans support guardrails requiring A.I. companies to meet independent safety standards, even if it slows down development. Bill Gates says he agrees.
BILL GATES, MICROSOFT CO-FOUNDER: You can't rely on the industry to self-regulate here. I mean, it's just insane. That supervisory layer is needed urgently to prevent bad people from using today's A.I. to shut down economies or kill millions of people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks, Elizabeth, for that.
We're joined now by Lina Khan, the former chair of the Federal Trade Commission.
Thanks for joining us this morning. So we just heard Bill Gates calling self-regulation insane. You say it's a recipe for disaster?
LINA KHAN, FORMER FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION CHAIR: That's right. We've seen that self-regulation efforts by big tech have been a proven failure. I mean, we need to remember what happened a decade ago where you had big tech companies, social media companies, similarly suggests that existing laws and regulations no longer apply to their new technologies, and that they were going to try instead to self-police.
What we've learned since then is that Meta, for example, was concealing evidence that its own products were deeply harmful to kids. We've seen just innumerable harms come from the unchecked domination of these big tech companies. And so now, as we face new horizons with these advanced A.I. systems, it would be an enormous mistake to repeat that playbook.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your former agency, the Federal Trade Commission, has opened an investigation into OpenAI. What can that yield?
KHAN: Well, look, I think we need to take any reporting around investigations by this administration with a huge grain of salt.
The chair of the FTC has said very plainly that it is President Trump and only President Trump that calls all the shots about what that agency will and will not do. We've seen time and time again that this administration has given a total green light to corporate lawbreakers, handing out corporate pardons, undoing settlements with companies that had even agreed to pay back money that they had stolen from Americans.
So, you know, my best guess would be any reporting of investigations, maybe some type of social insurance policy or an effort to maintain political leverage, because we've seen across the board that this agent, this administration has been enormously lax.
And I think, you know, you have on the one hand, these CEOs of these A.I. companies whining and dining at the White House, the idea that the next morning they're going to get some type of credible subpoena from the same administration I think just strains credulity.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you did write this week that there are laws on the books that could make a difference if they were enforced. Walk us through that.
KHAN: So I think one thing that's especially odd about this moment is that you're hearing from these executives that they are effectively developing malfunctioning products, A.I. systems that are engaging in repeated hacks of the servers of other companies, of the servers of other governments, and yet that they are somehow helpless as to do anything serious about it. And it's enormously important that we already have an existing set of laws that apply.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Product liability?
KHAN: Product liability laws, consumer protection laws, tort laws, laws against cybersecurity breaches, laws against public nuisance.
And so the idea that just because we have new technological capabilities, there's some blanket exemption from the laws on the books is totally laughable.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I mean, the product liability is an interesting case, though. The A.I. leaders don't intend for their agents to go rogue.
So when an agent goes rogue, can they be found liable under these laws?
KHAN: Well, look, there are already some private cases that are now underway raising these questions. But I think when you have a pattern of these agents engaging in this type of dangerous behavior and you still have these companies developing in the same way, not putting the full guardrails in place, I think that starts to raise very serious questions. I mean, on the consumer protection front, for example, when I was at the FTC, we brought cases against companies that were not engaging in adequate cybersecurity protections if they were not putting in place adequate safeguards.
And so I think there are very readily available analogies to what's going on here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The director of national intelligence, Jay Clayton, is in line to be Trump's A.I. czar. He's going to head up a task force that has 120 days to come up with an action plan.
And it seems like it's a twofold mandate. Address A.I. threats, but prevent overregulation.
So if they called you to testify, what would you tell them needs to be done right now?
KHAN: Well, look, I think what needs to happen right now is that we need to have investigations as to what's even really going on behind the curtain here. I think there have been very conflicting reports where these CEOs are somehow proclaiming that these agents are going rogue. And yet we have reporting coming out that actually they were very much on notice that their systems can act like this.
And so, I think we need to get to the bottom of what could the liability be even under existing laws and not just liability for these companies, but maybe even for the specific executives.
I think then, you know, Congress needs to legislate. We have a long history of governing technologies that are potentially transformative, but also extremely risky, extremely dangerous, be it when it came to the railroads, be it when it came to pharmaceuticals or nuclear power. And so, it's been heartening to see already some efforts by people like Senator Sanders, Congressman Jayapal, Congressman Casar, to start thinking seriously about what that could look like here.
But I think it's important to keep in mind that what we've seen through and through from this administration is just mass elite impunity, including for corporate lawbreakers. And so I think it's really going to be up to state attorneys general and also Democrats, if they win the House and the Senate, to do real investigation and oversight here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Lina Khan, thanks very much.
Up next, horrifying rape allegations rock Cornell this week sparked a national debate about sexual assault, campus culture, and the limits of our legal system.
The roundtable weighs in when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): Every parent who sends their child off to college expects them to be safe. And if something terrible happens, the student deserves to know that the people they turn to will listen to them, protect them, and fight for them. That is the bare minimum. This brave young woman deserved that in 2024 and she deserves it now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC ANCHOR OF "THIS WEEK" AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: The sexual assault controversy at Cornell dominated the headlines this week after a former student came forward with shocking claims in a civil lawsuit, calling into question how the university and prosecutors handled her claims.
Now, a new criminal case has been opened. Cornell is promising action. Chief Investigative Correspondent, Aaron Katersky has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON KATERSKY, ABC NEWS CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This week, disturbing new details about an allegation of a 2024 gang rape at Cornell University as prosecutors in New York re-examine the case.
LETITIA JAMES, (D-NY) ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is now an active criminal investigation.
KATERSKY (voice-over): New York's governor appointed State Attorney General, Letitia James, to investigate a former student's allegations she was drugged and raped by seven Chi Phi fraternity brothers over the course of several hours.
HOCHUL: This woman, this young woman, had already endured something that is utterly unspeakable and that at every turn, she was failed by people and institutions with an obligation to protect her.
KATERSKY (voice-over): Cornell's President, Michael Kotlikoff, posting this video message Saturday evening.
MICHAEL KOTLIKOFF, PRESIDENT, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: What happened to Jane Doe in 2024 is deeply disturbing. I believe we as an administration and we as a community must do better.
KATERSKY (voice-over): The push from Governor Hochul followed Jane Doe's filing of a civil lawsuit in September over the alleged crime. Three of the accused have denied the allegations. At the time, the Tompkins County District Attorney declined to bring charges, this week telling ABC News the allegations may be morally disturbing, but Jane Doe's account in 2024 did not constitute a crime.
MATTHEW VAN HOUTEN, TOMPKINS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: She clearly consented in the beginning, and there was never any indication that she changed that to the things that she participated in.
KATERSKY (voice-over): The D.A. said he relied on that initial consent explained in a six-page summary of Jane Doe's account but did no further investigating. Documents reviewed by ABC News say his office also declined to review other material gathered by University Police, and the prosecutor did not interview the victim of the alleged assault.
Through the course of the last week, ABC News has obtained key records collected during Cornell's internal investigation and reviewed others, which lay out a deeply complex story of what Jane Doe claims she experienced and what she went through afterward. In her statement to campus police, she described hours of group sex. Some she said she consented to, and some that felt like coercion.
ABC News obtained Snapchat messages shared among more than 50 fraternity brothers during the alleged assault. The friend Jane Doe went to see that night shared a photo with the whole group appearing to show her in the bedroom. One brother asking, "shop still open?" Another saying, "LFG." That friend of Jane Doe's inviting them all to the room, writing, "boys, come whip it out."
In the days that followed, Jane Doe exchanged messages reviewed by ABC News with one of her alleged attackers. He wrote to her, "I just wanted to apologize for how things went down the other night." She responded, "at the end of the day, none of the sexual stuff was illegal, and honestly I really liked being with you."
But as the weeks went by, she said she became more sure that what happened was not something she wanted. She texted that same man, "Let's be clear that 90 percent of what happened that night was not consensual." She added, "All I remember after that was you giving me ketamine." She said it made her feel "like a sex doll/worker."
Three weeks after the alleged incident, Jane Doe recorded a phone call to the friend she went to see that night, who she now accuses of rape, asking him, "Do you remember how any of these guys walked in?" He didn't mention his crude invitation on the group chat. Instead explaining it this way. "The door was just unlocked. The party was sort of like crowded. There was nowhere else to go." Jane Doe telling him, "if I wanted to take this somewhere, what y'all did would be classified as gang rape," claiming her body was left physically damaged.
Attorney General James, now serving as a special prosecutor after Governor Hochul removed the district attorney, Van Houten, from the case.
KATERSKY: Governor, can you clarify what made you lose faith in the Tompkins County District Attorney's Office?
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL, (D) NEW YORK: I'm deeply disturbed at Cornell University's police and how they handled this. They're the first ones to be able to interview and have their questions answered and let (ph) this young woman tell her story. Them sending a partial record over is a, in my judgment, a failure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Aaron Katersky for that.
The roundtable is back as well.
Michelle, let me begin with you.
So many different layers to this case. But, boy, it's those text messages that really get you and sparked this debate.
COTTLE: Exactly. I mean, the circle of culpability and the questions about responsibility and what you owe somebody, not even legally, but as a decent human being, those text messages make this so much -- so much of a bigger issue. Like who -- who reads these and comes in and doesn't step forward? I mean that's made this so much more complicated.
And I think, you know, this is what's different from when, say, we were in college, George, where, you know, there's always been a question of sexual assault and sexual entitlement on campuses. But now you've got this whole extra layer of, you know, like social media and things like that, that just make it so much more complicated.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And one of the other things we are learning is that this is something that's pretty prevalent on campus, women making claims. A huge percentage of women.
BRAZILE: According to one poll, 30 percent of women feel unsafe, not protected. And students deserve to be protected on campus.
George, when I went to campus last we, and typically we talk about the week in politics, they didn't want to talk about that. They wanted to talk about Cornell, and they wanted to share their concerns.
This is a conversation, I know it's uncomfortable, but we have to have it again, because what happened in this situation, she was failed. Miss Doe was failed by the campus police to the district attorney. And the fact that it has taken this long for her -- for this conversation to start, we're already behind.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Chris, you're a former prosecutor. This prosecutor said, listen, given the testimony I had, my hands were tied. Given the testimony and New York's law, which has its own complications. What more could or should he have done? Does the law need to be changed?
CHRISTIE: Well, I think, first off, from what I've read about it, the initial failure was on the Cornell police side of it. You have to turn over the full record to the prosecutors to really be able to have a complete record to make a judgment on. And this prosecutor, in fairness to him, didn't have a complete record to make that judgment.
Secondly, he is right. The New York law is unusual. And I think it probably does need to be changed.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I should probably have started (ph), it said you have to be completely -- basically passed out to be considered incapacitated.
CHRISTIE: Right. And if you voluntarily get intoxicated, as opposed to someone doing it to you in an attempt to have sex with you, that you are not incapable of giving consent, no matter how drunk you've made yourself, it still remains your responsibility under New York law.
There comes a point, I think, when you look at someone who is intoxicated, no matter how they got there, when you have to say, this can't really be consent. And so that's the problem with the New York law, probably does need to be changed.
The one thing I would urge is that, you know, she's put the attorney general now, Letitia James, in charge of it. This thing has to be done in a thoughtful way because, you know, there's a difference now too, between what the criminal threshold is and the civil lawsuit. I don't think they're going to have much trouble getting a significant settlement in the civil lawsuit from the people who are involved in that.
The question is, under New York law, as it stood at the time, is this a crime or isn't it? And I just hope that Letitia James and her team takes a dispassionate look at this, because I just want to remind people one thing, and I'm not trying to analogize these two cases, except in the attention.
Remember the Duke lacrosse case, and remember how convinced everybody was that those young men were guilty. And as it turns out, the story became very different when there was a deep and dispassionate investigation.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Right. But this seems a lot more serious than the Duke lacrosse case.
CHRISTIE: Well, you know what? I don't think -- I don't think we feel it that way, George. Like, if you remember the feelings at the Duke lacrosse time, it was these privileged boys from Duke had raped this African-American woman who had come in to perform.
So all I'm saying is that Letitia James's job here is to be the dispassionate prosecutor.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you still get back, Doug Heye, to the question that Michelle was alluding to, and it brings back the old Kitty Genovese case, is how come no one, none of those boys, no one stepped up and said, this just isn't right?
HEYE: I think something's broken on our college campuses and also broken within the fraternity systems themselves.
And if I'm talking to any college president or dean, you need to be prepared to be responsible and proactive in ways that we haven't been. There's the systematic failures that happened in Cornell are happening in other campuses as well. We just saw this week in Arizona, a university student gets sentenced to jail for hazing.
And we see stories like this --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Almost every week.
HEYE: -- almost every week. Yeah. And that's -- that's the problem.
COTTLE: George?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Go ahead.
HEYE: We'll be talking about a different school next month.
COTTLE: It goes beyond the systems, though. What this is, is it's a fundamental disrespect for women.
You can't send those messages no matter how drunk you are as a frat boy without having some kind of misunderstanding about what women are there for and whether this is a real person you're dealing with.
And that, I think, starts, you know, we can go to the president for this one. I mean, we are in a moment in this culture where the glorification of being thuggish and swaggering and mistreating women is kind of making you a cool kid.
CHRISTIE: And let's put it down to, look, we're parents. And I do think there has to be some kind of failure by parents as well, not to teach their sons that this type of content is just not acceptable. It's not right.
And so I don't care you go off to college and it's a little bit crazier and all the rest. But I think Michelle is going to get something that's much deeper, more fundamental that goes back. And I am sure that the parents of these young men are appalled by the fact -- at least I hope they are -- that their sons got engaged in this kind of conduct.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to have to stop there.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: This week, Martha Raddatz went to Virginia to see how the unpopular Iran War is playing out in a swing house district.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR AND CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is unquestionably a military district. Anchored by Virginia Beach, Virginia's second congressional district has one of the highest concentrations of armed forces in the country with nearby Norfolk home to the world's largest naval base. For the military families who live here, the war in Iran is more than a headline, it's personal.
CAROLINE TETSCHNER, VIRGINIA VOTER: We're eight months into a war that we were initially told by the commander-in-chief will be a few weeks. You know, and 18 service members killed and calls them small potatoes. Please tell that to a gold star mother.
Caroline Tetschner and her husband, John Fedorowicz, both served in the Navy, with a daughter now in the Army.
TETSCHNER: You know, it's always in the back of your mind when you have an active duty service member in your family. Will they be forward deployed? Will they be in this war battle zone area?
RADDATZ (voice-over): For John, it is the record-breaking deployment of the USS Lincoln and reports of deteriorating conditions and morale that angers him.
JOHN FEDOROWICZ, VIRGINIA VOTER: Some of these kids, 19, 20 years old, they have young families and to keep them out that long away from their families is just ridiculous.
RADDATZ (voice-over): John and his wife are among the nearly 15 percent of the district's residents who are veterans, and their daughter among the 5 percent on active duty.
RADDATZ: But Virginia's Second District is not just unique because of the percentage of military that lived there, it is also unique because, for the past 18 years, whoever won the House District won the House overall.
RADDATZ (voice-over): And fittingly this year, two Navy veterans are vying to represent the Bellwether Congressional District, the race a rematch four years in the making. Republican Congresswoman Jen Kiggans ousted Congresswoman Elaine Luria back in 2022, tying her opponent to then-President Biden.
REP. JEN KIGGANS, (R-VA): Elaine Luria and Joe Biden have spent trillions of dollars, leaving us with the highest inflation in 40 years.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Now Luria is trying to win her former seat back, campaigning on Kiggans' support for Trump's war in Iran. We caught up with the former congresswoman after a rally in Virginia Beach.
RADDATZ: You lost to Jen Kiggans. Why did you lose?
REP. ELAINE LURIA, (D-VA): I think I lost because she was a relative unknown and at that point, nobody knew what she stood for. Now she's gone to Washington, she's voted, she's had this long record of cutting people's health care, of voting over and over again for these tariffs that are increasing prices, of being a strong supporter of this war. She's voted 100 percent of the time with Trump.
She's not a relative unknown anymore, she has a voting record and it's bad, and people want to stand up against that and they want to change.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Representative Kiggans declined our request for an interview. While several GOP candidates in close races have bucked the president on the war in this closing stretch, Kiggans has supported the war since the beginning.
KIGGANS: I couldn't be a stauncher supporter of the action that we're taking against Iran.
RADDATZ (voice-over): We randomly ran into Denise Roland while looking to talk to voters. Her son works in Washington for Kiggans.
DENISE ROLAND, VIRGINIA VOTER: You know, she's got a proven track record of doing what we need in this community.
RADDATZ (voice-over): While she also supports Trump's efforts in Iran, she wants to see the conflict end and for gas prices to go down.
ROLAND: Do I wish that it would wrap up soon? Absolutely, you know, but I feel like he's doing what he needs to do.
RADDATZ (voice-over): The ongoing war is increasingly unpopular with the American public. A recent Quinnipiac poll found just 28 percent of registered voters approve of Trump's handling of the war and 66 percent disapprove.
BOB GEIS, VIRGINIA VOTER: I operated in that area for a really long time and Iran has been a bad actor almost my entire adult life.
RADDATZ (voice-over): A retired fighter pilot, Bob Geis, is a two-time Trump supporter and plans to vote for Kiggans, but he does have some misgivings about Trump's rhetoric.
GEIS: There are things that I find offensive, frankly, in some ways, but I look at overall, what's the direction of the country.
RADDATZ: So when you go to the polls in the midterm, do you think, I'm going to think Donald Trump is on the ballot or not on the ballot?
GEIS: No. Donald Trump is not on the ballot. Donald Trump is the President of the United States and will be for two more years, and only two more years.
RADDATZ (voice-over): John Andrews served in the Navy for 30 years, retiring as a captain. He voted for Trump in 2016, a decision he says he now regrets.
JOHN ANDREWS, VIRGINA VOTER: I've made an incorrect calculus in my mind at the time. It was the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Andrews supported Luria in 2022 and says he will again, pointing to her role on the January 6th Committee.
ANDREWS: Elaine Luria had the personal courage to do a detailed, thorough, as unbiased as you could be investigation of what were obvious crimes on the attack of the Capitol.
RADDATZ (voice-over): But for Caroline and John, those Navy veterans, it is the war that is one of the deciding factors in their support of the Democrat Elaine Luria.
TETSCHNER: And the fact that Jen Kiggans has voted with Trump 100 percent of the time tells me, I feel like she's a rubber stamper.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Even though the president is not on the ballot, his war with Iran most certainly is in this military district especially. A district that will have a big say in who controls Congress for Donald Trump's final two years in office.
For THIS WEEK, I'm Martha Raddatz in Virginia Beach.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Martha for that.
Up next, Jon Karl visits the People's House. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: President Trump has touted his golden overhaul of the Oval Office, and he told "TIME" magazine he wants to make it a federal landmark, so it can't be changed when he leaves office. Across the street at the People's House Museum, curators are updating their Oval Office to match Trump's.
Jon Karl paid a visit this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are interesting and unusual times that the People's House. Nonstop construction, destruction, too, and lots and lots and lots of gold.
And interesting times here at the People's House. This one right across the street from the actual White House complex and run by the White House Historical Association.
KARL (voice-over): This People's House is a free, interactive museum that opened two years ago at 1700 Pennsylvania Avenue. It's designed to let people know what it's like to be in the real people's house. You can experience what it might feel like to sit in a Cabinet meeting or be in the room when foreign leaders visit.
KARL: You can actually pull up a chair, sit down and feel a little bit of what it's like to be at the White House for a state center (ph).
KARL (voice-over): There's an immersive theater that lets you virtually visit the most famous rooms in the White House.
KARL: Every few minutes, the room changes from one room to another.
KARL (voice-over): There's a special exhibit featuring portraits of all of the presidents which, full disclosure, were drawn by my father-in-law, Salvatore Catalano. The museum's signature attraction, the Oval Office.
KARL: This is kind of the crown jewel of the People's House.
LUKE BOORADY, MANAGING DIRECTOR, THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE MUSEUM: Yeah, this is, I think, it always gets the most attention from visitors. People spend the most time in here. I think it's just -- it's such a powerful space for people.
KARL (voice-over): Luke Boorady is the Managing Director of the People's House. We talked to him this week in an Oval Office that looked like a construction site.
KARL: And your idea is to give visitors a sense of what the Oval Office is actually like, right?
BOORADY: That's right. Yeah, I mean, when you think about it, we're just about 800 feet away from the real Oval Office.
KARL (voice-over): Over the past 20 months or so, of course, the real Oval Office has undergone a staggering transformation. Now, those changes are coming here. Our time-lapse cameras capturing the work over the past week. The specs are meant to be exact.
Boorady spent 10 hours in the real Oval Office this summer, taking photographs and scanning every one of those gold fixtures, documenting every detail, and then copying them.
KARL: Where did you create all these objects?
BOORADY: All over the country, really. I mean, we had -- the scanning team is out of Indianapolis. The folks who did the 3D printing for us are in North Carolina, and, you know, they painted a lot of these in their garage.
KARL (voice-over): Of course, the Oval Office changes with each president. Here's what it looked like under JFK. It was First Lady Jackie Kennedy who founded the White House Historical Association, which ultimately led to the opening of this museum.
Over the years, presidents have changed the paintings on the wall, the statues, the carpets. Some have even changed the desk. But Trump's changes are unlike anything previous presidents have done, both in appearance and in sheer volume.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Handle it with great love and 24-carat gold. That always helps, too.
KARL (voice-over): The big question across the street from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, is what happens when Donald Trump leaves the White House.
KARL: So what are you going to do if the next president comes in and just takes down all the gold?
BOORADY: We'll do that, too.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Jon for that. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight," and I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
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