'This Week' Transcript 11-23-25: Sen. Elissa Slotkin, Sen. Mark Warner & Rep. Michael McCaul

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, November 23, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: A remarkably friendly meeting between President Trump and New York's incoming mayor, just as Trump accuses Democrats in Congress of seditious behavior punishable by death.

"THIS WEEK" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR -ELECT: And I look forward to working together to deliver that affordability for New Yorkers.

RADDATZ: After months of vitriol, President Trump finds common ground with New York's Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I feel very confident that he can do a very good job.

RADDATZ: Even as Trump accuses congressional Democrats of treason over calls for military members to refuse illegal orders.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): He's got these ideas. And these are dangerous ideas.

REPORTER: Does the president want to execute members of Congress?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No.

RADDATZ: This morning, Democratic Senator Elissa Slotkin, one of the president's targets, joins us exclusively.

Stark choice. President Trump pushes Ukraine to accept his peace deal by Thanksgiving or risk losing U.S. support.

TRUMP: Well, he’ll have to like it. And if he doesn't like it, then, you know, they should just keep fighting, I guess.

RADDATZ: As he ratchets up military pressure on Venezuela. What happens next on the threat of war and the push for space? We’ll ask Senate Intelligence Committee Vice-chair Senator Mark Warner.

Plus, Republican Congressman Michael McCaul.

And shock resignation. Marjorie Taylor Greene announces she’s stepping down from Congress after a high-profile falling out with the president.

TRUMP: Once I left her, she resigned because she wouldn’t have -- she never would have survived a primary.

RADDATZ: Our powerhouse roundtable on what it could mean for the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it's "THIS WEEK." Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ: Good morning and welcome to "THIS WEEK."

And what a week it was as the White House. From President Trump’s surprisingly public embrace of Zohran Mamdani, to his public breakup with Marjorie Taylor Greene, to his pointed attacks on Democrats who called for resisting unlawful military orders. The president's complicated relations with friends and foes alike took the spotlight, including on the world stage where he upped his pressure on Ukraine to make a peace deal with Russia, giving President Zelenskyy a Thanksgiving deadline. High stakes abroad and at home.

So, we begin this morning with ABC’s senior political correspondent Rachel Scott with the latest on President Trump's upended alliances.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This week the full spectrum of President Trump on display as he turned on one of his closest allies, blasted familiar foes, and heaped praise on former adversaries.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think you’re going to have hopefully a really great mayor. The better he does, the happier I am.

SCOTT (voice over): Thirty-four-year-old Democratic socialist Zohran Mamdani, who President Trump once said would ruin his hometown, receiving the president's approval.

TRUMP: I feel very confident that he could do a very good job.

SCOTT (voice over): The two even laughing their way through questions about their previous attacks.

REPORTER: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR-ELECT: I’ve spoken about the --

TRUMP: That's OK. You can just say yes, OK.

MAMDANI: OK. All right. All right.

TRUMP: It’s easier. It’s -- it’s easier than explaining it. I don’t mind.

SCOTT (voice over): That meeting came after President Trump started the week with a stunning show of support for Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman from the Oval Office.

TRUMP: What he’s done is incredible in terms of human rights and everything else.

SCOTT (voice over): The president leaping to the crown prince's defense over the 2018 murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Your royal highness, the U.S. intelligence concluded that you orchestrated the brutal murder of a journalist. 9/11 families are furious that you are here in the Oval Office.

TRUMP: Who are you with? Who are you with?

BRUCE: Why should Americans trust you?

TRUMP: Who are you with?

BRUCE: And the same to you, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Now who are you with?

BRUCE: I'm with ABC News, sir.

TRUMP: A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you’re talking about him. Whether you like him or didn’t like him, things happened. But he knew nothing about it.

SCOTT (voice over): Meanwhile, the president continued his push for peace in Ukraine, pressuring Zelenskyy to accept a deal largely mirroring Putin's wish list.

REPORTER: About this Ukraine plan.

TRUMP: Yes.

REPORTER: President Zelenskyy said today that his country would risk either giving up a partner or giving up its dignity. There’s been criticism that this deal, proposal --

TRUMP: You mean he doesn't like it?

REPORTER: It's unclear. He was sort of tenuous about it.

TRUMP: Well, he’ll have to like it. And if he doesn't like it, then, you know, they should just keep fighting, I guess.

SCOTT (voice over): And late Friday, the president celebrated the resignation of Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of his closest allies in Congress before their recent fling out. The president telling me just minutes after Greene's announcement that it was “great news for the country.”

The president soured on Greene in part after she fought for the release of the Epstein files.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Standing up for American women who were raped at 14 years old, trafficked and used by rich, powerful men should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the president of the United States, whom I fought for.

SCOTT (voice over): But after overwhelming support emerged in Congress to get that bill to the president's desk, Trump signing the law that gives the Justice Department 30 days to release the remaining files. The president's wrath this week also directed at six congressional Democrats, all former military or intelligence, after they posted this video on social media.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Our laws are clear, you can refuse illegal orders.

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): You can refuse illegal orders.

REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): You must refuse illegal orders.

SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law.

REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): Or our Constitution.

SCOTT (voice over): The president lashing out on social media in response to the video, calling them “traitors” and accusing them of “seditious behavior punishable by death.”

The flurry of posts sparking pushback on Capitol Hill.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The words that the president chose are not the ones that I would use, OK. Obviously, I don't think that this is some -- these are crimes punishable by death or any of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT (on camera): And, Martha, those Democratic lawmakers are seeing a spike in threats after the president's posts and their own posts online. Democratic Senator Elissa Slotkin announced on Friday that her home had been searched by Michigan State Police after a bomb threat.

Martha.

RADDATZ: And our thanks to Rachel Scott.

I'm joined now in studio by Senator Elisa Slotkin.

Thanks for joining us this morning.

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Thanks for having me.

RADDATZ: As Rachel pointed out, I know you've received death threats, bomb threats. I just want to read again what the president has been putting back -- putting on his social media. He is not backing off overnight, calling you again, “traitor,” “sedition at the highest level,” “a major crime.” This all started on Thursday. Donald Trump saying, "it's called seditious behavior at the highest level. Each one of these traitors to our country should be arrested and put on trial." Continuing, "this is really bad and dangerous to our country. Seditious behavior from traitors. Lock them up. Seditious behavior, punishable by death." He also reposted, "Hang them, George Washington would."

I just want to -- you to tell me what's happened since this.

SLOTKIN: Well, I think almost immediately, you know, the security situation changed for all of us. Leadership climate is set at the top. So, if the president’s saying things like that, you can imagine people on the ground, what they're doing, the calls into our office, et cetera, et cetera, into our teams, the calling of police.

You know, I think I've been through dangerous situations before, so it doesn't change, you know, my feeling about speaking my mind. But obviously, the president took issue with one sentence in a video and was calling for our death. I think that's inappropriate, whether you're a Democrat, Republican or an independent.

RADDATZ: The White House says President Trump wasn't threatening death but thinks you and the other members are in serious trouble. Are you concerned about any of that? Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said you should be held to account.

SLOTKIN: Look, I mean, I think there's no secret that the president is trying to weaponize the Justice Department. We've seen him do this many times with many different people already.

Again, this is a tool of fear. He's trying to get us to shut up because he doesn't want to be talking about this. And in fact, I would argue that one of the things that he's been doing by repeating it and talking about it is trying to distract us from the big stories of last week, which were the Epstein files and then the economy. And I took note yesterday, at 9:00 at night he's tweeting that there's no inflation. The economy is the best it's ever been. It was kind of amazing considering that the American public isn't stupid.

It actually reminded me of Joe Biden, right? Joe Biden tried to tell us for a year that the economy was great. Now, this president, who ran on lowering costs for Americans --

RADDATZ: But you changed the subject with that video as well.

SLOTKIN: Sure.

RADDATZ: And here's what White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said about your video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They're suggesting, Nancy, that they -- the president has given illegal orders, which he has not. Every single order that is given to this United States military by this commander in chief and through this command -- chain of command, through the secretary of war, is lawful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Is that an accurate statement?

SLOTKIN: So, I think the reason we put that statement out is because the sheer number of, frankly, young officers who are coming to us and saying, I just am not sure. What do I do? You know, I'm in SOUTHCOM and I'm involved. In the National Guard, I'm just not sure, what do I do? And I think, look, you don't have to take my word for it. We've had report after report of legal officer, JAG officers, coming forward and saying, look, I push back on this. I'm not sure that this is legal.

There is such things as illegal orders. That's why it's in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Going back to Nuremberg, right? And it's just a -- it's a totally benign statement. And if the president is concerned about it, then he should stay deeply within the law. But I think it's important to know it's not hypothetical, right?

This president in the last administration, his last administration, asked his secretary of defense and his chairman of the Joint Chiefs to, quote, "shoot at their legs” at unarmed protesters in front of the White House that he wanted moved.

RADDATZ: Actually, I know -- I know you're talking about Mark Esper's book.

SLOTKIN: Yeah.

RADDATZ: He didn't exactly say that. He said the president suggested that, but they were never ordered to do that.

SLOTKIN: And he got out of the Oval Office quickly so that he wasn't told to actually do it. And I give him a lot of credit for that. I give him a lot of credit.

RADDATZ: Do you -- so -- so, let's talk right now. Do you believe President Trump has issued any illegal orders?

SLOTKIN: To my knowledge, I -- I am not aware of things that are illegal, but certainly there are some legal gymnastics that are going on with these Caribbean strikes and everything related to Venezuela. And I think that's why --

RADDATZ: And be specific about that.

Let me read you what Senator Lindsey Graham said about your video. "You owe it to the men and women in the military to be specific about what you are talking about. What these senators and House members did was unnerving and it was unconscionable to suggest that the president of the United States is issuing unlawful orders without giving an example."

SLOTKIN: Yeah. So, for me, my primary concern is the use of U.S. military on American shores, on our city -- in our cities and in our streets. We've seen now the courts overturn the deployment of U.S. military into our streets, including here in Washington, D.C.

When you look at these videos coming out of places like Chicago, it makes me incredibly nervous that we're about to see people in law enforcement, people in uniformed military get nervous, get stressed, shoot at American civilians. It is very -- a very, very stressful situation for these law enforcement and for the communities on the ground.

So, it was basically a warning to say, like, if you're asked to do something particularly against American citizens, you have the ability to go to your JAG officer and push back.

RADDATZ: And with these service members calling you, couldn't you have done a video saying just what you just said? If you are asked to do something, if -- if you are worried about whether it is legal or not, you can do this. It does imply that the president is having illegal orders, which you have not seen.

SLOTKIN: I think for us, it was just a statement widely, right? We say very quickly and very -- to all the folks who come to us, this is the process. Go to your JAG officer, ask them for explanation, for top cover, for their view on things. We do that on a case-by-case basis, but we wanted to speak directly to the volumes of people who had come to us on this.

RADDATZ: And it is very clear that no one should follow an illegal order, but it's very murky when you look at what is an illegal order. And if you go into morally, ethically, that's a pretty tough thing to look at and say, how do I navigate this?

SLOTKIN: I don't -- I mean, going back to Nuremberg, right, that, “Well, they told me to do it, that's why I murdered people,” is not an excuse. If you look at popular culture, like, you watch, you know, “A Few Good Men,” like we have plenty of examples since World War II, in Vietnam, where people were told to follow illegal orders, and they did it, and they were prosecuted for it.

So, the best thing for people to do is go to their JAG officer, their local law enforcement or a legal officer in their unit, and ask for some explanation, ask for help. And that's what we've been advising people to do.

RADDATZ: You are on the Senate Armed Services Committee. What are you seeing in terms of Venezuela? Do you think there will be further action by the president?

SLOTKIN: Well, certainly the sheer size of the military buildup in and around Venezuela -- I mean, you have to assume that when superpowers put that much force into an area that they're going to use it. They brought in aircraft carriers, They brought in F-35s. I think the cost already is a billion dollars to move all that force into theater.

Certainly, if we're going to actually think about prosecuting some sort of war or military action against the mainland of Venezuela, I would hope that the president would want to have that conversation publicly, bring in the American people who are not looking to get into another war, who are not looking to get into regime change. We had Iraq and Afghanistan. I think people generally on all sides of the aisle are exhausted by war.

But just have that conversation, be transparent about it. I think that's what's been hard about the strikes in the Caribbean.

Many of us would be supportive of going after drug cartels, but a secret list of secret terrorist organizations -- you know, just be transparent with the American public.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks very much for joining us this morning, Senator. We appreciate it.

And let's turn now to GOP Congressman Michael McCaul.

Good morning, Congressman.

I would like your response to the video itself that Senator Slotkin and the others put out.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Well, I -- I don't speak for the president in terms of hanging members of Congress, but I will say these orders that they’re talking about, in my judgment, are not illegal orders to follow. They are orders based upon Article Two, self-defense, of the Constitution, to stop a threat -- in this case the threat of drugs, coming into your country and killing Americans.

And so, you look at it from that perspective, there are no illegal orders to follow here. In the event, Martha, if an invasion does take place in, you know, down in Venezuela against Maduro, and we see perhaps the toppling of governments, which we saw many decades ago from what they call the gringo down in Latin America, that would trigger a War Powers Act response by Congress. We would have 60 days, if the conflict is still ongoing, to determine whether a declaration of war is warranted or an authorized use of military force.

RADDATZ: And, Congressman, I want to go back to the video and them talking about don't follow illegal orders and the president's response, threatening death, threatening to lock them up, put them in jail. These lawmakers now have 24/7 increased security. What would you say to President Trump about these threats that are continuing?

MCCAUL: My advice, though not on his White House, but I would tone down the rhetoric and tone down the theme here. I would emphasize more what I discussed, and that is, these orders are not illegal. I mean they have been sent down on a mission to stop drugs from coming into the United States. And if that means, you know, taking out ships through the -- our aircraft and our air force, then so be it. I -- again, I think the orders are legal. That's the issue. The issue shouldn't be about --

RADDATZ: But clearly what they're saying is that they're getting service members who are concerned about that.

I want to turn to Ukraine. And you've got these negotiations going on right now. Secretary Rubio, Steve Witkoff are over there in Geneva. They have offered a plan to President Zelenskyy, who says “the pressure on Ukraine is one of the heaviest ever. Now Ukraine may face a very difficult choice. Either the loss of dignity or the risk of losing a key partner.”

You have seen that proposal. It seems to heavily favor Russia. Your reaction, and what should be done?

MCCAUL: Let me say first, if Biden hadn't let Afghanistan fall, we probably wouldn't have been in this position. In the first place, in the mishandling of the weapons going into Ukraine, as I talked about for the entirety of the Biden administration.

Having said all that, the way I see it now, we did have a conversation with the White House, the vice president, Secretary of State Rubio, last night. I also talked to others, like Keith Kellogg. The inception of this agreement seems to have come from a Witkoff discussion with the Russian Dmitriev, who heads up the Russian Sovereign Wealth Fund. It's unclear how much input was given by either Ukraine or our European allies.

Rubio did say on the call that this is a United States document with input from Ukraine and from Russia. About 80 percent of this deal, I think, they're going to find agreement with as they go to Geneva. The problem is going to be the 20 percent of really tough items to negotiate, you know, what happens with that.

And I would take a page out of Donald Trump's book, “The Art of the Deal,” to all parties involved in this. If you have a bad deal, then you've got to be prepared to walk away.

RADDATZ: This is all a bit confusing about the deadlines. The White House basically said, you accept this by Thanksgiving or you risk losing U.S. support. But now the president says this isn't the last deal.

Where do you think we will be on Thursday? Do you think it is clear that Zelenskyy has to accept this deal by then or possibly lose support, or is there wiggle room here, as the president indicated?

MCCAUL: I think there's flexibility. I do know that Rubio said, within the next 72 hours we all know a great deal about whether this goes forward or not. I think -- I think Zelenskyy has stated, the president, that he sees this as a vision, but not a done deal.

So, I -- it should not be take it or leave it. The -- on all parties sides, except the Russians I haven't talked to, is that this is an ongoing negotiation process. So, they're really getting it started. What they -- the way the White House described it last night was, we had to start putting this pen to paper so we could get something accomplished.

I do think it's in Ukraine's best interest to get something done now rather than a year later. The military industrial war machine of Russia has now risen to a level that is very difficult now for Ukraine. It wasn't that way in the beginning, but it is now.

RADDATZ: We last spoke after the Alaska summit. What -- what has really changed here? And you told me then that you believe Putin was manipulating Trump, but you thought Trump was, quote, "waking up to the fact that Putin is not negotiating in good faith, not making concessions and has to be dealt with."

Do you still believe that's true?

MCCAUL: Well, the president does say things like Ukraine should get all of its territory back. Well, that's not in this 28-point plan.

It seems to me, Martha, that Zelenskyy is always willing to make concessions to get to an agreement, to get to yes, while Putin is the one that's never willing to make concessions, even to this day. And so we'll see where he comes in.

I don't know if he will accept this plan, but the two items I brought up last night at the White House, very, very important. In 1994 Budapest, Ukraine gave up all its nuclear weapons in exchange for, what? For nothing. And then Russia invaded. There was no security agreement. There were just simply assurances given by Bill Clinton. That cannot happen again.

The security agreement in this case, Martha, was negotiated outside the Witkoff agreement with Russia, but rather with -- this is where Keith Kellogg did get involved to write a security agreement, which I hope is more ironclad, like an Article 5-like agreement. For without that, I would not advise Ukraine to sign this. They can't sign an agreement like the Budapest and then allow Russia to invade again.

RADDATZ: OK. Thanks very much for joining us this morning, sir. We appreciate it.

MCCAUL: Thank you.

RADDATZ: Up next the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner, on what comes next in Ukraine and Venezuela.

We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: What does victory look like in Ukraine?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: It's not victory when you smile, applause. It's not about it. To my mind, there is no victory with applause, yes, in the war because there are a lot of losses. So that's why for us to survive is a victory because we are surviving with our identity, with our country, with our independence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: That was President Zelenskyy speaking with me in September about Ukraine's future.

Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chair Mark Warner joins me now.

Good to see you this morning, Senator.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE VICE CHAIR: Good morning, Martha.

RADDATZ: What is your reaction to this peace proposal that is on the table?

WARNER: My reaction is it's awful. It would make Neville Chamberlain's giving in to Hitler outside of World War II looks strong in comparison. The fact that this was almost a series of Russian talking points, would require Ukraine to give the -- totality of the Donbas, parts they still control, cut back their military forces going forward, never be able to join NATO, this would be a complete capitulation. And it’s why I think you’re hearing from Congress, both sides, people pushing back. And, obviously, the Europeans feel like they’ve been totally left high and dry.

RADDATZ: You -- you’ve heard the deadline from President Trump, but then him saying that’s not -- there’s room for negotiation here, it seems like. So, what do you think happens after today (ph)?

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: I think what happens -- it feels like this was a plan that they took almost entirely from the Russians, did no consultation with Congress, no consultation with the Europeans, obviously didn’t read in Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians, and now, they’re getting ferocious pushback.

So, one more time, Trump is changing his deadline to push -- how he picked Thanksgiving to start with, I have no idea. But now it -- even with this -- some of this back and forth that it’s not really an American plan, or isn’t an American plan, this is the kind of chaos that, unfortunately, represents so much of the Trump foreign policy.

RADDATZ: So, what do you think President Zelenskyy should do? He’s been through this before. It’s kind of back and forth with this White House. They support you. They pull it back.

Do you think all of this, this proposal, which seems to heavily favor Russia, is that just a starting point -- again?

WARNER: Well, I would hope -- I would hope so.

Again, the Ukrainians have performed magnificently in the field. And they are reinventing the nature of warfare in terms of use -- use of drones. To have this proposal forced upon them, I think as Zelenskyy said, Ukrainian dignity versus giving up a partner, I would hope the president would not be so weak as to try to force this plan on the Ukrainian and our other allies.

It would, I think, send not only a horrible signal for Europe, but the person who’s watching this probably the most closely is President Xi in China. And if the Americans are willing to throw in their towel so much like this on Ukraine, you can bet that Xi is thinking, this gives him a clearer path in terms of taking Taiwan.

RADDATZ: But what does Zelenskyy do here? If on Thursday the president says, I'm telling you right now, take what we’ve got on the table and -- and there will probably be some changes, or we’re done. What -- what does Zelenskyy do, just hope that Europe rises and helps him out?

WARNER: Well, let’s -- let’s, again, you have overwhelming support still for Ukraine. The last Ukraine aid package had 80 percent of the Congress. I think the president is seeing this one-sided plan kind of blow up in his face with pushback from the Ukrainians, from the Europeans, from members of Congress of his own party. And my hope is, he’ll come back and be a bit more reasonable.

RADDATZ: I want to turn to Venezuela. We’re all watching that this week.

What can you tell us about what you think happens now? We’ve got this massive buildup. We’ve got this massive show of force. We have airlines who aren’t -- that aren’t flying there because of all the activity and the military activity right now.

Do you expect something more to happen?

WARNER: Well, historically, the United States’ intervention in Central America or South America has not always rolled out the way we’d hope. Maduro was a bad guy, frankly, under Biden. When the Venezuelan people voted in overwhelming numbers, Biden should have put more pressure on getting Maduro out then. It was a mistake.

But now, to have this much armed forces, we have not been briefed on any military action that would have been authorized. He keeps putting the word out that maybe he has authorized, maybe he’s not. We are trying to get the answer on that.

But there is a real question. You know, to take this big a fleet, bring our largest aircraft carrier, put them there, what, to further blow up boats that they claim have drugs on them? Frankly, they could have interdicted some of those boats and shown the world that there were drugs.

In terms of Venezuela, the legal opinion about the drug run -- drug running doesn’t touch Venezuela at all. So, the president would have to come back and brief us.

RADDATZ: Trump says he’ll be speaking with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Do you think that is a good idea? And what can you say to him?

WARNER: Because I think the notion that Trump says he’ll talk to anyone, I think that is -- I'm not going to critique him on that, if there’s a way to push Maduro out. Remember, our government and 50 other governments, almost all of Western Europe, don’t recognize the Maduro government as legitimate.

But it does not feel like there is an organized plan. And coming down again, America only, without any of our other allies in South America or Central America again seems not the right approach to me.

RADDATZ: What could happen short of a show of force? When you have that massive a show of force, it’s almost like, you’re in a position where you have to do something or you might look weak. Short of Maduro saying, “OK, I'll leave,” then what does he do?

WARNER: Well, again, that’s the million-dollar question. And as you know, when you’ve got this many forces down there, and you can’t keep the carrier positioned there forever, you also have the chance of an accident happening or a conflict between the Venezuelan air force or some of our planes that might --

RADDATZ: Do you think he wants to go to war with Venezuela? Do you think he wants to hit a plane?

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: I don't know. I don't know. I think he is trying to put outside pressure on Maduro. But by doing it in this kind of America-only approach, again, without giving any sign to, I think, even the Republicans on The Hill what his plans are, I'm not sure it is the right way to do foreign policy. You couple this Venezuela misadventure with this desertion of Ukraine, and this is not making America safer, and it's sure not putting America first.

RADDATZ: Thanks very much for joining us, Senator. Always appreciate it.

Up next, the Roundtable on President Trump's embrace of Zohran Mamdani and Trump's breakup with Marjorie Taylor Greene. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: And the roundtable’s all here now.

ABC News chief White House correspondent Mary Bruce, “New Yorker” staff writer Susan Glasser, Center for American Progress President and CEO Neera Tanden, and former Trump White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus.

Good morning to all of you.

And, Mary, I got to start with you. That was a remarkable scene. I don't think I have ever seen President Trump treat a Democrat so kindly in public. What was that about?

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a very good question. I think none of us really knew how this was going to play out, and then it turned into this complete love fest. I mean it really wasn't that long ago that they were hurling insults at each other, right? I mean Trump labeling Mamdani a communist. Mamdani calling Trump a fascist. And yet on Friday, all of that, I think to much of our surprise, was water under the bridge. I thought it was very interesting that Trump clearly knows that Mamdani’s message of affordability is gaining traction. At some point it seemed like they were trying to out-affordability each other as both parties try to claim that mantle. And very strategic of the mayor-elect to come in and remind the president that some of his supporters had backed him. Trump then saying, you know, he thinks even some conservatives will be surprised by Mamdani. I’m curious to see where concretely they work together and just how long this budding bromance will last.

RADDATZ: And exactly that question to you, Neera. And Mamdani was very conciliatory as well, although apparently just a few minutes ago he said on NBC that he still thought the president was a despot and a fascist. So, maybe that's breaking down a little bit. But what's your take on all of this?

NEERA TANDEN, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS PRESIDENT & CEO: You know, I feel like the greatest level of sadness for all the Republican ad makers who spent -- who were spending weeks and maybe months plotting out the ads they were going to run against Democrats. All these people saying, oh, he’s going to be a big weight on the Democratic Party.

RADDATZ: The poster boy, right? Yes.

TANDEN: The poster boy for the midterms. Mike Johnson, just last week, said the whole victory was about Mamdani and that he was going to -- he is the new leader of House Democrats, even though that sounded kind of crazy. And what actually -- Donald Trump just evaporated all of that. Any ad that any -- comes up, you know, everyone can just show how much the president was very fond of Mamdani.

And, you know, I thought that it was a great accomplishment, actually, that he was able to maneuver this meeting, Mamdani -- Mayor-elect Mamdani was able to maneuver this meeting. But also just a true sign how much the affordability message, which was really resonate for Democrats last week, is really just -- has -- is front and center.

RADDATZ: And, Reince, you -- I want you to take all that on, the Republicans really are going, whoa, wait a minute, I guess we don't have Mamdani to push around anymore, make the poster boy. What was your take on what happened in the Oval Office? Do you think President Trump planned that or he was just taken by Mamdani?

REINCE PRIEBUS, FORMER RNC CHAIR & FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF & ABC NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: No. I -- well, I guess maybe both. I thought it was classic Trump. I mean this is like pure Trump. A one-on-one, he is charming. He's very good with people one-on-one.

But it's also the fact that number one, Trumpism is just because you're enemy doesn't mean I'm not going to do a deal with you. Nobody's ever a permanent enemy. He loves winning over critics.

RADDATZ: Or a permanent friend.

PRIEBUS: He loves winning over critics.

But I thought it more or less -- you know, I kind of disagree. I think it eviscerated Mamdani more than Trump because Trump supporters like myself, we know that Donald Trump will bring in enemies and charm them and get a deal done with them.

But Mamdani is supposed to be pure. Mamdani is this guy who's this newfound sensation. And there he was standing next to Donald Trump completely charmed and out of his mind.

And the second thing I'd say is that as a reminder, I've said this for weeks, economic populism of the left in many ways sounds a lot like economic populism of the right. So, I have no doubt that they had a meeting, and they talked a lot about those issues.

Sticking it to billionaires, giving it -- giving it back to the little guy is one of the most Trumpy things there is.

So, there could be some things that they have in common, and I do think the culture wars will come back and maybe Mamdani will reignite that sometime down the road.

RADDATZ: Susan?

SUSAN GLASSER, NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER: I mean, sticking it to billionaires -- I mean, maybe that is the reason in the end that Donald Trump needed to have and wanted to have this meeting on Friday because there was this indelible image, it seemed to me, of this Trump presidency earlier in the week when you had the billionaire leaders of the American tech economy, including Elon Musk, who was banished but now apparently is back, in the White House for a formal, practically state level dinner for the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, you know, the bones saw guy.

And here it is, Trump perhaps wanting to get his populist credentials back at a time when there's persistent inflation in the economy, at a time when his poll numbers are sinking.

And I thought, you know, as a matter of political changing the story, I think, you know, this is where Donald Trump excels because we're talking about a yuk-yuk photo opportunity in the Oval Office and not the, you know, the sort of incredible scene of those billionaires in the White House, really echoing the January 20th inauguration of Donald Trump where the billionaires were given seats of honor ahead of many of the Republican politicians in Donald Trump's own party.

RADDATZ: And, Mary, not only Mamdani this week he was celebrating him, then he was celebrating that Marjorie Tylor Greene is resigning as of January.

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I know we say this a lot but this one really is very shocking. I mean, we certainly have seen a lot of Republican defections, but she is the first true believer to defect, right? She is one of his closest, most ardent supporters who stuck with him through everything, and she leaves with quite a parting shot, essentially warning all of Trump's supporters and MAGA movement that if she can be cast aside, well, then they can be, too.

Trump's response was sort of classic Trumpian, right? He thanked her for her service, says he'll always appreciate her, but also labels her a traitor who's gone bad in his words.

RADDATZ: And that it's good for the country.

BRUCE: And that it's good for the country.

But there's no doubt, I think, that it has to raise concerns and questions from him about the cracks that this exposes in the Republican Party and what it means for his support in that movement going forward.

And I, for one, I'm just fascinated to see what she does next.

RADDATZ: And this started, of course, Neera, with the Epstein -- releasing the Epstein files with Marjorie Taylor Greene. So, she really took a stand on it.

ENERA TANDEN, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS PRESDIDENT & CEO: Absolutely. I mean, I think there's been a lot of talk about this. At the very heart of this, he attacked her. He called her a traitor for being a champion of release of the files.

And the release of the files, you know, I just want to note, you know, was a near unanimous vote out of the House and the Senate. And I hope, actually, we see on Epstein that we do not have a cover up at DOJ and that all the files are released post haste because I do think, you know, you'll see in the MAGA movement itself as Marjorie Taylor Greene kind of represented, if those files aren't released, this will be a continuing cancer.

The fact that she has been banished, as you said, one of the leaders of MAGA, over Epstein just demonstrates how cancerous the Epstein files are as an issue to Donald Trump himself.

RADDATZ: Of course, now, he says he will release them.

But, Reince, a little more on Marjorie Taylor Greene and what that means and how the base will look at that and what -- what effect do you think that will have any sort of ripple effect?

PRIEBUS: Well, I don't know about a ripple effect. I mean, the way I look at it is Marjorie Taylor Greene raised more money than any congressperson in our country for many years. And how did she do it? She did it by riding Donald Trump's coattails.

It's not that she was in favor of releasing the Epstein files. I’m in favor of that as well. I have been. But you have to understand something. And no offense to ABC, but she went on "The View" to attack the president. And there's only so far performance politics can take you unless you're Donald Trump, because he does it better than anybody. And as far as the president being a lame duck, here she was -- she went on "The View." The president unendorsed her, and she's gone.

Donald Trump runs the party. He's the standard bearer. She attacked the standard bearer on "The View." She's gone. That's what it means to me.

RADDATZ: And what do you -- Susan, what do you see as far as the Republican Party, as far as the MAGA base? We've also had some disagreement about the president and the Elissa Slotkin, and those veterans who came forward and said, no illegal orders. And you saw a little bit of the Republicans saying, didn't like that.

SUSAN GLASSER, NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER: Yeah, they didn't like it. But, I actually, I think for instance, making a very important point here, which is that, I've heard from critics of the president this week, a little bit of a whiff of perhaps slightly over torque (ph) enthusiasm about, this is the beginning of the end of the Trump era, the lame duck phrase. And it does strike me that, we've got a long way to go here. First of all, Donald Trump, his control over the Republican Party, you could see it in the exercise of banishing Marjorie Taylor Greene.

And again, it would be more notable, or perhaps we would be on more solid ground to say, this is a moment where Republicans are beginning to peel away from Trump. If they had peeled away on anything other than the Epstein files, and, again, this was a particular issue that had been promoted by a key part of the MAGA base. It was a remarkable demonstration, but so far, I haven't seen that happen across the board in any other way.

But let's remember that the Congress of the United States, essentially, has allowed the executive branch to usurp a basic power in the Constitution to appropriate and spend money, has not stood up for itself, has not gone to court as a different Congress might and said, wait a minute, it's the Congress and not the White House that gets to decide when we shut down agencies and when we don't spend money that we've appropriated for that.

So, again, I'm watching to see that moment. I suspect it's going to be much more after the next year's midterms and not before then, that you might see Republicans begin to really prepare more actively for the post-Trump era.

RADDATZ: And Mary, we have about 45 seconds left here. But, I want to look back at this week and you questioning the president. This was a week where we found out the president had told a female reporter, quiet piggy. He asked who you were with, and you came right back with some answers and questions about so many things. How -- was this week different to you?

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes and no. I mean, Donald Trump often attacks the press and I think it is almost always a distractionary tactic, right? When he doesn't want to answer a question, he goes on the attack. And we saw that multiple times this week. And the through line in all of that questioning was the Epstein files, and the simple question of why he still has not released them himself. And that's a question he still hasn't answered.

RADDATZ: OK.

BRUCE: He's just gone on the attack.

RADDATZ: Thanks. Thanks to all of you. We'll see you soon. Up next, a director takes on a very personal project on the life of legendary conservationist, Jane Goodall. We're back in a moment.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR AD ENVIRONMENTALIST: Most people knew her as Jane Goodall, the icon, the legend. But the Jane I was fortunate enough to get to know was gentle, curious, funny, witty and absolutely unstoppable. She could light up a room with her stories and somehow inspire everyone she met to believe that they individually could do better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: That was actor, humanitarian, and climate activist Leonardo DiCaprio remember his friend, the world renowned wildlife conservationist Jane Goodall, at her funeral at the Washington National Cathedral last week.

DiCaprio produced "Yanuni," a documentary about the Amazon by filmmaker Richard Ladkani, a longtime friend of Goodall's. Ladkani is now working on a new film about the end of her life set to be released next year. I sat down with him to discuss Goodall's influence on his work, their relationship and her legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: When you heard she had died, that must have hit you in the gut?

RICHARD LADKANI, DIRECTOR AND CINEMATOGRAPHER: I have never cried so much. It was like a truck hitting you, and I just like, I broke down.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Director and cinematographer Richard Ladkani has called Jane Goodall a friend and collaborator for nearly two decades.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through text translation): We've been at war for a very long time.

RADDATZ: Partly inspired by Goodall's years of working with wildlife and conservation, Ladkani's 2025 film "Yanuni" follows indigenous activist Juma Xipaia as she fights to save Brazil's Amazon.

LADKANI: I wanted to make a film about the Amazon because I felt that people has lost connection with the Amazon like emotionally. So I was looking for a unique voice, someone who could be that communicator to the world and could really kind of emotionally grab us again that something is going on that the whole world needs to care about. And that's when I found Juma Xipaia, and she's this amazing indigenous leader that is the strongest voice I've ever met.

RADDATZ: And Juma's strength, her passion, and her baby "Yanuni," the namesake of the film, inspired Ladkani's friend Jane Goodall.

LADKANI: So on the final bit of filming of "Yanuni," Jane arrived and I introduced them to each other and it was like forces of nature colliding but in a good way. The energy exchange of seeing these protectors of our planet meet in force in the Amazon was so intense.

RADDATZ: And it was there in the Amazon, Jane suggested Ladkani make one more film about her.

LADKANI: And I'm like, Jane, there's a lot of films about you. Like what else is there to tell? And she said, Richie, you know, they're never been personal, right?

RADDATZ: It's all about what she was doing, not about her.

LADKANI: And she said that actually, you know, the world, they all want the icon. But I'm a human being. I'm a person. I can be silly, funny, sad, exhausted. And it's really hard for me to keep chasing that icon in my mind (INAUDIBLE) and somehow would it be nice to show the world who I really was, the real Jane, me? Just me, Jane? And that's how -- that's how it all began.

RADDATZ: The film now called "Just me, Jane" set to be released next year.

LADKANI: I traveled the world with her, 27 countries, five continents in her 90th year. We had so many great adventures. We didn't know this was the last time we would all be together, but it was. And now that she passed, I think the responsibility of this film is massive, you know? Because it's like, now it's a legacy film. I'm going to be spending the next year or year-and-a-half with her in the editing and then showing the film around the world. Leonardo DiCaprio is the producer of the film. He's going to come behind it.

RADDATZ: Tell me about what they were like together. Jane Goodall and Leo DiCaprio.

LADKANI: He loves being in the presence of Jane. He adores her, so -- and Jane loves that too. So, she likes it when good looking men love her --

(LAUGH)

LADKANI: You know? She flirts with people. Mostly he would listen. They would really discuss politics. She would always have an agenda of like, do you know about what's happening with this species or with this ecosystem? Or do you think we could raise money for that? And he would listen and he would go out and try to do what he can.

RADDATZ: Tell us something about her that we don't know.

LADKANI: What I find fascinating is that she never stops thinking about the planet, and she never stops thinking, what else can I do? And sometimes I asked her, Jane, aren't you like in a way, like a slave to that icon that you're chasing around the world? She's like, no, I can't stop. I need to do even more than my time is running out. So I need to be faster.

But what I'm also hoping is that my spirit will live on. And the time that I had on this planet that people will keep believing and following this path. And we had many beautiful conversations over a glass of whiskey. She does love whiskey. So that's the one thing that, I don't know how famous that is, but she -- every day, she was like, let's have a night cap.

But what most fascinated me is, is this woman that when she was getting weaker, that she would never, ever stop. That she would still push herself to keep going because she just felt this was the reason she was put on this planet.

RADDATZ: A remarkable woman. Our thanks to Richard Ladkani and we look forward to seeing " "Just Me, Jane" next year. We'll be right back.

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RADDATZ: That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and have a great day.

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