'This Week' Transcript 12-14-25: Sen. Mark Warner, Rep. Mike Turner & Rep. Gabe Amo

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, December 14, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: Terror strikes Brown University. A person of interest now in custody after an overnight manhunt for the mass shooter.

"THIS WEEK" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. DAN MCKEE (D-RI): Yes, so the unthinkable has happened.

RADDATZ: Two students killed, nine more wounded in a mass shooting on Brown's campus in Providence.

CHIEF OSCAR PEREZ, PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have detained someone of interest.

RADDATZ: As another tragedy unfolds in Australia. Two gunmen killing 11 people at a Hanukkah event on Sydney’s Bondi Beach. The latest in both investigations this morning.

Major escalation.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've just seized a tanker.

RADDATZ: U.S. forces seize an oil tanker off Venezuela’s coast. The president threatens more action to come.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): It will be a quicksand for our military if this escalation continues.

RADDATZ: We’ll speak with Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chair Mark Warner and Republican Congressman Mike Turner.

Economic pressure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks can't unsee what they see when they go to the grocery store.

RADDATZ: Public opinion sours over President Trump's tariffs and rising prices. Our roundtable weighs in.

And --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We said no fatigues, no military vehicles, no weapons and no actual law enforcement.

RADDATZ: We visit Albuquerque, New Mexico, where the Democratic governor has deployed plain-clothes National Guard troops to take on crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "THIS WEEK." Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ: Good morning, and welcome to “THIS WEEK.”

As we come on the air this morning, students at Brown University and beachgoers in Sydney, Australia, are reeling from the shock of mass shootings that happened just hours apart.

In Providence, authorities have just announced a person of interest is in custody after the shooting in a Brown University classroom late Saturday afternoon that left two students dead and nine more injured.

And overseas, two gunmen opened fire on Australia's popular Bondi Beach during a Hanukkah festival. Police there say at least 11 are dead, another 29 wounded, in what's being called a terrorist attack on the Jewish community. It is unfortunately an all too familiar feeling of fear and sorrow.

Today also marks the 13th anniversary of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, that left 26 dead, including 20 young children.

We’re going to cover it all this morning. We begin with Whit Johnson in Providence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHIT JOHNSON, GOOD MORNING AMERICA WEEKEND ANCHOR (voice over): This morning, officials announcing they have a person of interest in custody after the deadly shooting at a Brown University classroom yesterday afternoon that left two students dead and nine others injured.

MAYOR BRETT SMILEY (D), PROVIDENCE: We have detained a person of interest involved in yesterday's shooting.

JOHNSON (voice over): Local law enforcement officials working alongside the FBI to detain that individual after an urgent manhunt.

COL. OSCAR PEREZ, PROVIDENCE POLICE CHIEF: Yes, as all tips that we receive, detectives followed up on a lot of them. And, again, all the resources, the federal partners that we have.

JOHNSON (voice over): Sources telling ABC News, the person in custody is not a student at the Ivy League school. The detention came after officials released this video late last night, a man wearing dark clothing, calmly walking the streets of Providence after police say he had just left the building. The first calls of an active shooter reported just after 4:00 p.m. Saturday.

SMILEY: Today is a day that the city of Providence, and the state of Rhode Island prayed would never come.

JOHNSON (voice over): Police say a gunman entering the Barus and Holley Engineering Building opening fire in a classroom on the first floor as students prepared for their final exams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In front of the sciences library on the Manning Walk for a male shot in the back.

JOHNSON (voice over): The doors of the building unlocked because of files, giving the suspect access. Terrified students barricading themselves inside classrooms and ducking for cover, receiving text messages warning them to lock doors, silence cell phones and stay hidden.

ALLIE MCINTYRE, BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Everyone that was in Barus and Holley, everyone’s that's had to spend their nights in the sciences library barricaded. I don't think we've felt that fear ever.

JOHNSON (voice over): Police swarming the scene, immediately entering the building. But they say the suspect exited the side of the complex before they arrived and fled on foot. Of the nine wounded, seven patients are in stable condition, one is in critical but stable condition, and one has been treated and released.

Zoe Weissman is a sophomore at Brown who was also at the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, nearly eight years ago.

ZOE WEISSMAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENT: I just kind of felt the same cycle of emotions I felt when I was 12 in Parkland. You know, like just the numbness.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNSON (on camera): And, Martha, the person detained was taken into custody at 3:45 this morning in Coventry, Rhode Island, after law enforcement received a tip. Sources tell us that individual was in possession of two weapons at the time.

Martha.

RADDATZ: Thanks, Whit.

And I'm joined now by Rhode Island Congressman Gabe Amo.

Congressman, thank you for joining us this morning. I know it's been a horrific overnight and this morning as well, but there has got to be some relief in the community this morning.

REP. GABE AMO, (D) RHODE ISLAND: Yes. We got some encouraging news this morning, hearing that there is a person of interest in custody, and the shelter in place order for the area of Brown University and the neighborhoods is lifted. But I certainly want to offer my condolences to the families of the two students who lost their lives and my prayers for those who are in the hospital now, making sure that they have all of the strength that they need to pull through this definitely terrible situation for the Brown and Providence communities.

RADDATZ: And can you tell us a little bit what it was like overnight as they were hunting for a person of interest? All you had is that brief video. Was there more information they were getting? We heard that it was a tip that sent police officers to a local hotel.

AMO: Well, there was a tremendous amount of coordination between local law enforcement, led by the Providence Police Department under Mayor Brett Smiley's leadership and the -- all of the communities that’s around. Rhode Island is a very interconnected place. So, nearly every local law enforcement agency, combined with our state police and federal support, were working through the night. And as you shared, there was a tip line and that video circulated. Almost, you know, at midnight, but people were paying close attention. And I am heartened to know that there is at least a modicum of relief this morning for people in our community.

RADDATZ: So, you believe the person who has been detained is the person in the video? The tip came from that video?

AMO: According to our law enforcement officials, they have indicated that there is a high likelihood. Now, they are still going through their investigation, and I don’t want to compromise their efforts at all, but they have lifted both the shelter in place order and have encouraged folks to go about their day. Obviously with caution and an additional police presence. But that is what we have heard. And we will, you know, follow for any updates accordingly.

RADDATZ: And you have heard nothing about motive? We were told this was not a student, the person who has been detained. Not a student at Brown University. Any indication of motive at this point?

AMO: Yes, I think it’s still too early for that at this point. I think all of the energy right now is focused on continuing the investigation while simultaneously providing healing to a community that has been really hurt in a way that no one expects. And it does not have to be this way. But too many of our communities have to deal with these sorts of tragedies. And I know the leadership is very focused on that part of the work as well.

RADDATZ: OK, we thank you so much, Congressman. And, please, send everyone our prayers. We’re thinking of all of you.

AMO: Thank you.

RADDATZ: And as we mentioned, another horrific shooting overseas, this time at a Hanukkah event on Australia’s Bondi Beach. This video showing the moment you hear gunshots ringing out.

(VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Foreign Correspondent Marcus Moore joins us now.

And, Marcus, we know those gunmen were perched on some sort of bridge?

MARCUS MOORE, ABC NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Martha, that's right. They were perched on top of a pedestrian bridge when they started shooting at innocent people. And this morning, Australia's prime minister has called this incident shocking and distressing.

Authorities say this was a terror attack targeted directly at the Jewish community. Authorities have confirmed that at least 11 people have been killed and 29 injured after those two gunmen shot into a crowd of people at the world famous Bondi Beach in Sydney, Australia.

Now, eyewitnesses have told our Britt Clennett that the shooting happened as many people gathered to celebrate the first day of Hanukkah.

We do want to warn you that some of the video images are upsetting here. Videos show hundreds of people running for cover as the shots rang out. It happened at around 6:45 in the evening in Sydney and early estimates are that about a thousand people were on the beach at the time.

Police say one shooter was killed, the other taken into custody. And investigators also found a vehicle nearby containing what authorities believe were several improvised explosive devices.

And, Martha, as you can imagine, there was a massive emergency response at the scene. Authorities have not identified the gunman, but they are also looking into the possibility that a third person may have been involved.

And there's been a strong response from world leaders. Israelis -- Israel's President Herzog commented on the shooting while at an event and he said in part, "We repeat our alerts time and again to the Australian government to seek action and fight against the enormous wave of antisemitism which is plaguing Australian society.”

Martha, the investigation into this horrific attack is ongoing.

RADDATZ:  Our thanks to Marcus.

I'm joined now by our chief justice correspondent, Pierre Thomas, and ABC News contributor and former FBI agent, Brad Garrett.

Good morning to you both.

And, Brad, I want to start with you.

In Sydney, Australia, that seemed like it was pretty well-planned and a clear motive. Brown University, the planning, this suspect, the person of interest didn't seem to plan that well. He ended up in a hotel in the airport.

BRAD GARRETT, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  So, it's classic, Martha, for mass shooters, particularly lone shooters, to plan the shooting, decide where they're going to go, what room, et cetera, but they don't tend to plan an exit. And so, they leave the scene many times because they think they're going to die.

I mean, most mass shootings are suicide attempts, basically.

RADDATZ:  Even at a university like that?

GARRETT:  Even at a university, because you got university cops, et cetera. So that doesn't really surprise me.

So, he leaves the scene, he walks off, according to the video, and then ends up in a hotel. And predictably he gets caught I think because of the video. Somebody recognized the gait, the way he walks, the clothes he had on. Something tipped them off that he was in that hotel and they grabbed him.

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ:  And that's what I was going to ask you, Pierre. It did come in to a tip line. You heard the congressman say that obviously they put that image out. Wasn't much on that image, but apparently it was enough and probably to have a lone male there check in late that night.

PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS CHIEF JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT:  Martha, we don't know exactly what the tip was. And again, the public didn't have a lot to go on that grainy video. Don't see the person's face. So, the public didn't have a lot to go on.

So, we really want to know exactly what that -- the nature of that tip was, but law enforcement obviously very happy that they have a person of interest. I'm told by a source that they're very confident that they have the right person.

But again, there's a reason why they're calling him a person of interest. We have a name that we're trying to check out. Law enforcement has a name they're working to see if they can get more background information on. Again, no information about motive yet.

RADDATZ:  And back to you, Brad, on that he was not a student according to our reporting. So, what does that tell you about motive? That -- that kind of limits him in some ways.

GARRETT:  Well, maybe. I mean, just because he's not currently a student and he may be older doesn't mean that he doesn't have some connection or revenge or anger or rage -- because that's what drives mass shooters -- to Brown University, and maybe in particular the engineering department.

I mean, you know, you think about Sandy Hook. He was an adult, but he went back to the elementary school and killed people.

So, it symbolizes something to him at Brown University as to why he was there.

RADDATZ:  Okay. And, Pierre, just in closing here, we've done this so many times. We know we have. It's heartbreaking.

How do law enforcement -- how does law enforcement look at this and say, "What can we do?" He walked on a campus. We're not going to close campuses. What do you do?

THOMAS:  Well, unfortunately, I don't have a lot of good news. The FBI recently put out a bulletin warning at the holidays right now, this season we're in, is especially a dangerous period of time.

We've seen since the beginning of the year, the New Year's Day attack in New Orleans. Also, around Halloween, the FBI said they uncovered a plot targeting Michigan. And just the day before Thanksgiving, we had those national guardsmen here shot, one killed.

So, it's a dangerous season and this threat environment is as dangerous as we've seen before 9/11.

RADDATZ:  Very depressing. Thank you both for joining us.

Up next, what is the Trump administration's endgame in its escalating pressure campaign on Venezuela? I'll speak with a top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: We turn now to the Trump administration's mounting pressure campaign against Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro. And this week it saw a dramatic escalation. Armed U.S. forces repelling down to the deck of a sanctioned oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela, with cameras rolling. With the country's significant oil reserves helping Maduro hold on to power, the tanker seizure adds economic pressure to President Trump's constant threat of a military intervention.

So, what exactly is the Trump administration's end game in Venezuela? We'll discuss that with two key members of Congress, as well as the latest on a deadly attack on U.S. forces in Syria.

But first, this report from ABC's Matt Rivers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT RIVERS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A crucial week in the U.S. pressure campaign on Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro. President Trump laying out the stakes, again saying land strikes are on the table.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And now we're starting by land. And by land is a lot easier. And that's going to start happening.

RIVERS (voice over): The president promising strikes soon for weeks now as some 15,000 troops deployed in the region await orders. In the meantime, now targeting oil.

TRUMP: We've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela. A large tanker. Very large.

RIVERS (voice over): This stunning video showing the U.S. military seizing an oil tanker off the Venezuelan coast Wednesday. Troops fast roping to the deck, quickly gaining control. The ship, called “The Skipper,” was previously sanctioned by the U.S. for allegedly smuggling Iranian oil. This time, carrying Venezuelan crew bound for Cuba.

Maduro condemning the court-authorized seizure as, quote, “criminal piracy.” The seized tanker now on its way to Texas, as U.S. officials say more seizures like this could be coming soon. The U.S. sanctioning six more tankers shipping Venezuelan oil. And that will ratchet up pressure on Venezuela’s beleaguered president as oil exports are the Maduro government’s number one source of revenue.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We’re not going to stand by and watch sanctioned vessels sail the seas with black market oil, the proceeds of which will fuel narco terrorism of rogue and illegitimate regimes around the world.

RIVERS (voice over): The president making it clear he wants Maduro out.

DASHA BURNS, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: So, how far would you go to take Maduro out of office?

TRUMP: I don't want to say that but --

BURNS: But you want to see him out?

TRUMP: His days are numbered.

RIVERS (voice over): The person the U.S. may want to replace him, Venezuelan Opposition Leader Maria Corina Machado, who was recently awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, escaping Venezuela to Norway this week after more than a year in hiding under threat of arrest.

MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Certainly, the regime would have done everything to prevent me for coming. They did not know where I was in hiding in Venezuela. So, it was hard for them to stop me.

RIVERS (voice over): President Trump, meanwhile, keeping the door open to further military action against alleged drug traffickers in the region.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It doesn't necessarily happen to be in Venezuela's people that are bringing in drugs to our country are targets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIVERS (on-camera): And even more proof that the U.S. seems committed to this military pressure campaign in the near term. These new satellite images showing the U.S. aircraft carrier Gerald R. Ford just 215 miles or so from the coast of Venezuela.

That aircraft carrier, Martha, the most lethal, most advanced aircraft carrier in the world. Martha?

RADDATZ: Thanks to Matt Rivers.

Senator Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, joins me now in studio.

Good morning, Senator.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Good morning, Martha.

RADDATZ: What is your reaction to them seizing that tanker? This is a major escalation.

WARNER: Well, it shows if we can interdict the tanker, why can't we interdict the boats carrying drugs as well? I've said repeatedly, the Maduro regime has been brutal to the Venezuelan people. And I think the Biden administration made a huge error when a couple years back the Venezuelans voted overwhelmingly to get rid of Maduro, and they didn't put enough pressure on getting him out.

But that still begs the questions, what is President Trump's theory of the case? Is it regime change? We've got a mass of forces almost unprecedented in the region. And I think the president needs to come to Congress and the American people if his goal is to further increase pressure on Maduro and potentially launch forces.

RADDATZ: And -- but this is very different. This is economic pressure. And they've already sanctioned six additional ships. So do you foresee a quarantine, a blockade? What are you expecting because of this latest escalation?

WARNER: Well, you'd think, as a member of the so-called Gang of Eight, where we're supposed to be briefed on everything, I would have the answer to that. I don't. I do not know what this president's goal vis-a-vis Venezuela is. Again, particularly since he makes the accusation that we're trying to stop the narco drug traffickers. And the vast majority of the drugs come from Ecuador and Colombia. Venezuela may be a bi-station, but I don't think the president has made the case.

RADDATZ: You heard him the most recently saying that land attacks could be pretty soon and he's going to hit horrible people. So what do you think that means? He also said it may be beyond Venezuela.

WARNER: Well, constantly making these threats, whether it's Venezuela, Colombia, elsewhere, we all know, the history of American intervention in Central American and South America over the last 100 years has not been a great story. And I feel many of these sailors, for example, are homeported in Norfolk and in my state. And I'm hearing from parents saying, is my son or daughter going to be in harm's way?

They ask legitimate questions as well in terms of the strikes against the drug boats. Are they even legal? And I think the president owes those parents and owes Congress and the American people an explanation of what his goal is.

RADDATZ: There's no question Maduro is a bad guy. You've said it yourself. Something has to be done about him I suppose. This is what "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board said. It hoped there would be more seizures of oil tankers. "Mr. Maduro relies on oil export revenue to fund his regime and keep his military happy. Without this cash flow, panic may grow in the ranks. The seizure signals that Mr. Trump isn't backing down on his effort to oust the dictator. This wouldn't be a coop, but a liberation for Venezuelan democracy."

So, besides you not knowing what President Trump wants to do, do you agree with this?

WARNER: I agree that the Venezuelan people want Maduro gone. But the opposition, while the opposition leader just won recently the Nobel Prize appropriately, I have real questions. If Maduro is pushed out, will there be still the Venezuelan military will take over? Has there been enough organization with the opposition to make a transition?

And when you've got most of the other nation states in the region not supporting our action, where does this lead? Does this going to mean American boots on the ground in Venezuela? I don't think the American people want that. Particularly since he's not --

RADDATZ: Do you support regime change? Do you support getting rid of him? And if so, how would you do it?

WARNER: Listen, I don't -- I think Maduro is a bad guy. There's plenty of other bad leaders around the world where we don't have this level of massed forces. You know, I thought Donald Trump was going to end the endless wars and not make America the policeman for the world. If anything, it seems like, you know, in this case he's trying to up the ante. In Ukraine, where I think there is a just alliance of democracies against Putin, he seems to be

taking the opposite action.

So, I'm not sure where he’s headed here. I do fear that boots on the ground in Venezuela could be a disaster.

RADDATZ:  You -- let’s -- this certainly was a distraction to the boat strikes. The second strike in particular with the survivor.

Let me ask you first to clarify. Do you think the strikes on those suspected drug boats are actually drug boats? You’re on the Intelligence Committee. I know you’ve seen intelligence. Are you confident those are actually drug boats?

WARNER:  I'm confident the majority of these boats have drugs on them. They knew the 11 individuals on the boat -- the strike on September 2nd. They don’t know all of the individuals on many of the other boats.

And what I worry about is this legal opinion, which really seems to stretch -- I don’t think passes the smell test, saying, somehow having the -- having drugs on these boats is the equivalent of say the Iranian Revolutionary Guard having bombs and weapons. And I think the American people and Congress deserve to see the video that I saw of -- with these survivors, what took place, how they were waving, it appears, to the airplanes, and then they take this strike.

I also think it’s important that all of the documentation of the execution order, the after action report. There’s a legal option in the JAG Corps. We need to see that as well because I am reluctant to kind of reach the conclusion that some of my colleagues have that this was an illegal strike. If it is that (INAUDIBLE) --

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ:  You’re reluctant to do that even -- you’ve seen the video. You’re reluctant to say it’s an illegal strike?

WARNER:  I am -- I want to get all the documentation. I think the strike is extraordinarily chilling. And I think a lot of America will reach a very negative conclusion about this. But I think it is so potentially damning to say that our military is taking illegal strikes.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Give me the information.

I think General Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, wants to provide that information. I'm not sure Pete Hegseth wants that out.

And the remarkable thing is, Hegseth pounds his chest, brags about all this kind of things until there’s controversy, and then appears -- often throws uniform military under the bus.

RADDATZ:  And, of course, President Trump originally said he would support the release. So, we’ll see what happens. Thanks so much for joining us this morning, Senator.

WARNER:  Thank you.

RADDATZ:  And let's bring in Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee.

It's good to see you this morning, Congressman.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH):  Thank you, Martha.

RADDATZ:  Before we turn to Venezuela, I want to ask you about the attack in Syria, an ISIS attack killing two soldiers and an American interpreter. The president says he's going to retaliate.

What can you tell us about that?

TURNER:  Yeah. Well, certainly our heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones.

So, as you know, the United States has you know roughly around 2,000 soldiers in Syria, on an important mission to continue the fight to completely defeat ISIS. President Trump having had the president of Syria in White House -- in the White House getting his support for continuing that effort. For first time, Syria joining with others to continue that fight to defeat ISIS.

This is an important mission. We’re training to ensure that -- that, you know, the stabilization of the area, both Iraq and Syria, that it's completed. You -- this is a mission that the White House is committed to and will certainly continue.

RADDATZ:  Okay, Congressman, let's turn back to Venezuela if we can. Your reaction to the administration seizing that oil tanker and the fact they say that six more have now been sanctioned?

TURNER:  Well, Martha, as you were saying, you know, the seizing of the skipper was done by the Coast Guard and this being -- is being done consistent with valid legal processes. And this is all part of going against what is this murky, illicit, shadow system of, you know, oil ships that's being utilized both by Venezuela, Iran and others that supports Russian, Iranian, you know, really terrorist organizations and groups to avoid the sanction systems.

You know, Hezbollah, ISIS, others have used this system. China benefits, Cuba benefits, others benefit.

This illicit system that allows both money and oil to move has been subject to sanctions, and it's been very difficult unless they are subject to this seizure processes pursuant to a --

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ:  What do you think the goal is here?

TURNER:  -- sanction system. This ship has been -- well, the goal obviously is to --

RADDATZ:  What do you think President Trump's goal is? This is clearly a major escalation.

TURNER:  Well, this is an es -- this is an ability to utilize the U.S. sanction system to make certain that they're subject to those sanctions.

And as the White House said, this is, you know, really to make them subject to what is the system that's been used all around the world. It certainly puts additional pressure upon Venezuela, upon Maduro, but also upon all of these systems. This sends shock waves around the world to all of these groups that are using these illegal systems to move money, to move oil. This is a very important move to bring these systems under U.S. sanctions and under really the Western sanction system.

RADDATZ:  So, Congressman, we've got this enormous economic pressure now. We've got military pressure, 15,000 U.S. forces in the region. So, what do you think the president is going to do next? You've heard what he says he's going to do next, that he's going to hit the land, he's going to hit what he called horrible people. He might even go beyond that. Are you comfortable with that? What do you think will happen?

TURNER:  Well, the president has not been clear, and he is not certainly been communicating with Congress. And I think he has been certainly escalating both the rhetoric and certainly the presence in the area, putting pressure on the Maduro regime. The -- and as Senator Warner has said, certainly Maduro is a bad guy. And through the last administration, this has been left over to this administration. Both the people in Venezuela have been subject to really the criminal nature of that regime. This is, I think, an appropriate focus for the administration.

I think that the administration, though, does need to make the cases Senator Warner was even saying, to Congress. I think the administration, though, is being slow to tell Congress because they don't want to tell everybody what they're doing. They don't want to show their hands, as they're increasing this pressure. I think taking the skipper certainly shows the economic pressure, as you were just describing, that gives, I think, Maduro the pause to see that the administration's not stopping, both as they have this military presence, but also economic pressure that's going to put this regime certainly in a very compromised position.

RADDATZ:  And Congressman, do you believe the videotape of that second strike should be released to the public?

TURNER:  Well, I have not seen it yet. We're going to be seeing it next week. I do believe that Congress has done very significant oversight. The joint chief -- the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs both met with the leadership of the House and the Senate, the Intelligence Committee, the Armed Services Committee, all received briefings both from Admiral Bradley and the chairman, and the Secretary of Defense has spoken to them. They've all seen the video.

Now, the Full Armed Services Committee is going to be seeing the video. You've just heard the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee say that he himself has not concluded that it was an illegal act. So, and we all know that "The Washington Post" article has proven not to be accurate. So I think this oversight investigation is going to proceed. And as such, we're going to certainly get to the bottom of both what occurred, what acts did occur, and as that investigation goes forward, Congress will have more information to be able to understand what occurred and how do we proceed next.

RADDATZ:  And Congressman, quickly, if you can, we just have about 20 seconds, but these strikes, and this war on drugs comes as the president pardoned the former president of Honduras serving a 45-year sentence for his involvement in one of the largest and most violent drug trafficking conspiracies. Your reaction to that? What message are Americans supposed to take from that?

TURNER:  Well, there is very grave concern in Congress about these strikes in general, and you just hit, you know, exactly why, because of the contrast. These individuals are not being subject to criminal prosecution. And if they were subject to criminal prosecution, there's no capital punishment --

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ:  But I want you to comment on the pardon.

TURNER:  Right. Well, on the pardon itself, here's an individual who was subject to criminal prosecution and then released. These individuals, even if they were subject to criminal prosecution, there's no capital punishment for drug trafficking. These individuals, because they're being subject to military actions, are being put to death. They can't be subject later to another administration being --

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ:  Should the former president of Honduras be released?

TURNER:  I certainly have very serious concerns about his pardon. But I do think what is important here is the contrast that you're making. And that is that these individuals do not have an ability later to be subject to another administration reviewing their issues and being subject to a pardon.

RADDATZ:  OK. Thanks so much for joining us this morning, Congressman. Appreciate it.

Coming up, President Trump was dealt a blow by his own party. Indiana lawmakers striking down a proposal to redraw congressional maps. The Powerhouse Roundtable breaks it all down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): After today's vote, the American healthcare crisis is now 100 percent on Republicans' shoulders.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): You can vote for something that continues to increase premiums, which is just, you know, just an extension of what the Democrats are doing, or actually vote for something that reduces premiums and puts the power and the money back in the hands of the American people and not in the pockets of the insurance companies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Lawmakers gridlocked over dueling healthcare plans as millions of Americans face higher premiums when Obamacare subsidies expire soon. The roundtable is all here to discuss that, and much more, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ:  And the roundtable’s all here.

Former DNC chair Donna Brazile, “New Yorker” staff writer Susan Glasser, “Puck” chief Washington correspondent Leigh Ann Caldwell, and RNC senior adviser Danielle Alvarez, now an ABC News contributor making her “This Week” debut.

It's great to see you, Danielle. Welcome.

And welcome to everybody today.

And Leigh Ann, I want to start with you. And let's talk about Indiana, where lawmakers there rejected the president's redistricting efforts.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, PUCK CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT:  Yeah.

RADDATZ:  Tell us about that. What does that mean for their -- for where they are and what they're doing?

CALDWELL:  I mean, it means a lot on multiple levels. First, on the redistricting effort, it really puts back Republicans on that. They were hoping to pick up two new seat -- Republican seats and to help them maintain the majority.

But the bigger story is here is how they win against the president. That is something this Republican Party has been resistant to do since he started his second term.

And these Republican state lawmakers were under a tremendous amount of pressure. They were getting swatted. They were having threats of political violence against them. They were getting threats of primaries from the president and his team.

And ultimately, they decided not to do this. They -- Indianans -- I have been reporting throughout -- that do -- did not want this. They listened to their constituents. And it was a really, really difficult vote.

But this is a form of resistance in this pres -- from this president that we haven't seen yet.

RADDATZ:  And, Donna, Leigh Ann talks about the kind of the ugliness here. Let me read something from Heritage Action.

“President Trump has made it clear to Indiana leaders if the Indiana Senate fails to pass the map, all federal funding will be stripped from the state, roads will not be paved, guard bases will close, major projects will stop. These are the stakes, and every no vote will be to blame.”

So, did this strategy backfire? Was that a big part of it, do you think?

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  I agree. But also, I think from the -- from the outset, the Indiana Republican leadership, especially some of them who are up for reelection, and many of them are may not run in 2026 or 2028, they made it very clear the integrity of their elections matter most of all.

And they understood the pressure campaign from Washington. Vice President J.D. Vance visited the state twice. But at the end of the day, those 21 Republicans stood up to the rule of law. They stood up for the basic principles that elections should be state and local and not a pressure campaign from the federal government.

RADDATZ:  And, Danielle, is this a personal setback for President Trump? How does he take this? What message does he get?

DANIELLE ALVAREZ, RNC SENIOR ADVISER & TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER:  I think that Republicans are very frustrated as you look ahead towards the midterm elections and the environment that has to be created for Republicans to be successful. Redistricting plays a large part. Democrats have been successful in states like California with Prop 50. And of course, there is a setback in Indiana.

And I've spoken to Republicans on the ground in Indiana who are frustrated by those that took the vote not to redistrict, especially as you look at the country holistically, the map, and how Republicans will hold on to the House in these midterm elections.

You look at New England, you have six states that have one Republican seat. So, it's incredibly frustrating for Republicans on the ground.

And you're seeing for the first time the president, his administration, and the party as a whole, the RNC as a whole weighing in on this issue.

RADDATZ:  And, Susan, we certainly are seeing that, but you're also seeing, and you wrote about this this week, that Indiana may not have happened if the poll numbers for President Trump were not so low.

SUSAN GLASSER, NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER:  Yeah. I mean, look, we're ending the year, the first year of Trump's return to the presidency with some pretty remarkable findings about the public and people walking away from Donald Trump, the people who actually did reelect him. And that's what's very notable to me.

You saw very notable numbers in both the “A.P.” survey and the Gallup survey. Right now, President Trump facing 31 percent disapproval on the economy. That's even lower than his overall disapproval rating, which is his overall approval number in that same survey was 36 percent.

In his first term, the economy, even if it was never the greatest economy in the history of the world, as he'd like to say over and over and over again, it was a strength for him, and it carried him through politically difficult times because of his polarizing personality or his divisiveness.

Now, what you see is people saying, "I don't like his policies, and I don't like the man." And so, he's having some of the worst numbers of his entire time in public life.

RADDATZ:  Donna, one of those economic indicators is certainly healthcare, affordable healthcare and the affordable healthcare subsidies expiring soon. The Senate got nowhere.

BRAZILE:  Yeah. It -- the healthcare crisis is real. I don't know why it's a partisan issue. Look, I was born at Charity Hospital in New Orleans, so I've always had deference toward those who would stand up and support affordability, accessibility of all Americans to have healthcare. You know, when you're sick, you don't look for a Republican or a Democratic doctor. You look for somebody who can make you well.

And the fact that the Republicans are going to be leaving Washington in a couple of days and not dealing with this crisis -- this is a crisis. People in West Virginia, 70,000 West Virginians may lose their healthcare. When you look across this country, in Georgia, I was down in Florida, this is all people are talking about. They're not talking about buying 30 Barbie dolls or 30 dolls. They're talking about how can I make ends meet? What can I afford? And this healthcare thing, those premiums, when they get that bill, boy, this is a game changer.

RADDATZ:  That has to worry people. Danielle, that has to worry Republicans and the president talks about a plan, a better plan. But what is that plan and when do they see it?

ALVAREZ:  Well, the president has taken measurable steps to work towards transparency in the healthcare system. It is in fact a huge problem, not only transparency, but favored nation drug pricing. So with executive orders in the stroke of a pen, the president has taken measurable steps to address the healthcare crisis.

But that's absolutely right. There is more that has to be done. These premiums will go up. Congress has to act. Obamacare has been a failure. We're having to subsidize it with taxpayer dollars. It is not sustainable. And so, Congress has now a decision to make. Are they going to get creative and put patchwork and framework together to address Obamacare? Or are they going to overhaul it and address it long term?

My hope is that we do address it long term, but we can't allow another government shutdown in the meantime while we find a solution.

RADDATZ:  And Leigh Ann, this all sounds to you like Healthcare Groundhog Day, I think you described it.

(LAUGH)

CALDWELL:  Yeah, that's absolutely right. This is a repeat of history in the sense where Democrats are the party of healthcare. They feel very comfortable in this space. Obviously, they created Obamacare 15 years ago and Republicans have always been on their back foot on this issue. This is not a place they like to be. This is not an issue they like to talk about, and not one where they feel comfortable politically or policy-wise, which is why the party has struggled for so long to come up with any sort of real healthcare plans.

I mean, the president has been talking for 10 years now about concepts of a healthcare plan that we haven't seen. Now this coming week, House Republicans are going to put forward some piecemeal parts of -- to address healthcare. It's probably going to fail, and we're going to end up in the exact same situation as we have been for a while.

BRAZILE:  Well, if the Leader Jefferies is going to put forward a discharge petition, 214 votes are already on it. We need four strong Republicans to come over and support the American people. Over 70 percent of American people would like to see these subsidies extended.

RADDATZ:  And Susan, I want to end on Venezuela and talk to you about that. And what -- you heard Mark Warner, you heard Representative Turner. What do you think is the next step? You can't leave 15,000 forces forever there.

GLASSER:  Yeah, Martha, you and I have both seen this before in military buildups. And unfortunately, a logic kicks in, which is that you bring the troops there and then you have to do something with them. And I think it's the confusion that the American public has right now. Why are they there? What are they doing for -- seizing the tanker is an escalation this week. I expect to see more such escalation, noting that the legal rationale behind seizing the tanker seems to be that it was going to sanctioned country, Iran, not necessarily directly connected with Venezuela.

We have the uncertain legal status of the military campaign against alleged drug trafficking boats in the Caribbean, no evidence so much. Americans are wondering, as we head into the holiday season, are we going to war in Venezuela? And why? What is -- what's happening?

RADDATZ:  From a president who said he doesn't want to go to war, so we'll all stay tuned for that. Thanks everybody for joining us.

Up next, how one Democratic-led city has embraced a National Guard deployment to help address crime. My report from Albuquerque, New Mexico when we come back.

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RADDATZ: President Trump's move to crack down on what he calls out of control crime in Democratic-run cities by sending in National Guard troops has drawn widespread objections. But in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the Democratic mayor and governor requested National Guard troops on their own.

We traveled there, and the first thing you notice about the Guard is they're not wearing fatigues. They're wearing black polos, and you won't see them carrying weapons. I spoke with Albuquerque city leaders who explain why they believe it's been a success.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ (voice-over): It's the largest city in the land of enchantment, nestled beneath the Sandia Mountains, and home to a rich Native American history. The iconic American highway --

1ST LT. AARON JONES, NEW MEXICO ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: This is the old Route 66.

RADDATZ: -- runs directly through it, but for decades, Albuquerque, New Mexico, has struggled with high crime, poverty and drug use. Once vibrant parts of the town, now plagued by addiction and desperation. One particularly troubled area known as the war zone.

JONES: We definitely have our fair share of the -- of the unhoused.

RADDATZ: Aaron Jones is a senior official with the Albuquerque Police Department, a National Guard officer, although you wouldn't guess it by looking at his attire. He's been tasked with overseeing the city's National Guard deployment, requested earlier this year by the city's Democratic mayor. As we drove through the streets of Albuquerque, dozens of people in distress.

JONES: That's like the quintessential example for most of these folks. They've got some sort of life crisis that they experienced, turns into a drug addiction, turns into living on the streets.

RADDATZ: In the hours we spent with Jones, a new blueprint for now the National Guard in Albuquerque works alongside local police, not in place of them.

JONES: They know that the National Guard is not easy (PH) work. We are here in an assistance role.

RADDATZ: It's a stark contrast to the scenes that have played out in Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., and Chicago, where President Trump has unilaterally ordered National Guard troops over the objections of the state's governor.

MAYOR TIM KELLER (D), ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO: We said no fatigues, no military

vehicles, no weapons, and no actual law enforcement.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  Guard members in Albuquerque have body armor, but patrol the city in polo shirts, without guns and not carrying out any law enforcement duties.

KELLER:  Who wants to see people in fatigues running around a bus station in America? It just doesn't feel American.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  Democrat Tim Keller was elected mayor of Albuquerque in 2017, determined to get a grip on the city's stubborn crime problems.

KELLER:  You put together addiction, access to drugs, fentanyl, and then you put together deep-rooted poverty challenges, and you get this mix that we've had for some time.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  Earlier this year, Keller sat down with the state's Democratic Governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham, and the city's Police Chief, Harold Medina, to develop a plan unique to Albuquerque. While troops deployed in other states have come from all over the country, the Guard members on the streets of Albuquerque are locals.

KELLER:  They are Burquenos, as we say. The fact that they know our city and are from our city was also extremely important to their acceptance.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  Staff Sergeant Roy Cain was out responding to a distress call as part of his deployment.

STAFF SGT. ROY CAIN, NEW MEXICO ARMY NATIONAL GUARD:  I got to see some things that I didn't know was going on. These are our neighbors. We live with them every day, whether I'm serving as National Guard or I'm just living here.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  Chief Harold Medina has headed the Albuquerque Police Department since 2020 and oversaw a drop in crime in the early part of the year, but was worried about losing ground during the summer months when crime tends to spike. But when the request to deploy the National Guard was approved, police officers were freed up to focus on law enforcement duties.

HAROLD MEDINA, ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT CHIEF:  The thought process with the National Guard was, we would get the National Guard to take tasks that an officer wasn't needed for.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  And that drop in crime persisted.

MEDINA:  At that point in time, we were down about 30 percent in homicides and we're going to finish the year off down 32 percent in homicides.

RADDATZ (voice-over):  While the National Guard deployment is set to expire tomorrow, Mayor Keller and Chief Medina are open to continued use of the Guard.

MEDINA:  When you work with your local police chief to roll out a program that is going to be accepted by the community, that is the difference between a city having riots for what is a kind of enforcement is occurring in their city, and a city that is making progress and delivering results.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ (on camera):  Our thanks to the Guard and the police. We'll be right back.

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RADDATZ:  That's all for today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and have a great day.